Not everyone is good at coming up with a productive purpose on their own. A job lets those people adopt a purpose that gives their life some structure and meaning. Without it, people often waste away... all the people who die shortly after retirement, as an example. Add money into the mix, and that money can fund a drug habit as an escape for a lack of purpose. Drug overdoses spiked when the covid checks were sent out. Giving someone without purpose, and a drug habit, a bunch of free money can kill them.
I'm not opposed to the idea of UBI, I think we should at least set up the framework, so we can turn the dial up or down, depending on how things go with AI and robotics. The issues mentioned are some downsides I do think about and why I don't think it's as straightforward as "give everyone money and they'll start doing art."
I think universal healthcare alone would let a lot of people choose the job they want, instead of the job they feel they need.
I'm opposed to the idea of UBI entirely. I think we should take care of the poor and needy, but UBI, imo, isn't the way to get there. There are infinite jobs out there, the problem is paying for them. Go plant trees, build housing, teach children. If money happened that people could do whatever things and get paid for it, would be a better solution than free money from the sky for nothing.
I'd only really entertain the idea if these AI optimists are correct about AI and robots doing literally everything. I assume they are wrong, but having a system in place before it becomes a crisis seems wise. That's why I like the idea of being able to turn it up or down. Start with it way down, basically off (during this period, maybe the funds collected go toward shoring up social security). If things get bad, turn it up, and if the market starts to adjust and new types of jobs are created, turn it down again... so it can serve the purpose of bridging the crisis, rather than having congress issue checks randomly like we say 5 years ago.
To your point, how funds get distributed could be up for debate. Maybe instead of sending them to everyone, some kind of productive work that benefits society is required, and the fund would provide a way to get paid for work that normally pays little to nothing. The problem with this, is that the administration of such a program is expensive, error-prone, and full of bureaucracy, just like most other welfare programs. I'd like to think something like UBI would replace most of the other programs, to dramatically cut administration overhead for the countless programs that exist today.
Administration overhead is people having jobs and coworkers and interacting with other people. If the point is to give people jobs, why would we want to get rid of jobs?
All those jobs create the bureaucracy that makes it harder for people to get access, lead to fights over who "deserves" what, and may create more problems than they solve.
pm90 · · focus · HN ↗
sphinxterai · · focus · HN ↗
gopher_space · · focus · HN ↗
As an employer, UBI and universal healthcare might slash payroll costs and eliminate most of the hiring process.
As a founder, UBI might remove the funding barrier to entry.
What's the downside, and who is it a downside for?
al_borland · · focus · HN ↗
I'm not opposed to the idea of UBI, I think we should at least set up the framework, so we can turn the dial up or down, depending on how things go with AI and robotics. The issues mentioned are some downsides I do think about and why I don't think it's as straightforward as "give everyone money and they'll start doing art."
I think universal healthcare alone would let a lot of people choose the job they want, instead of the job they feel they need.
fragmede · · focus · HN ↗
al_borland · · focus · HN ↗
To your point, how funds get distributed could be up for debate. Maybe instead of sending them to everyone, some kind of productive work that benefits society is required, and the fund would provide a way to get paid for work that normally pays little to nothing. The problem with this, is that the administration of such a program is expensive, error-prone, and full of bureaucracy, just like most other welfare programs. I'd like to think something like UBI would replace most of the other programs, to dramatically cut administration overhead for the countless programs that exist today.
fragmede · · focus · HN ↗
al_borland · · focus · HN ↗