‹ BackHN Continuity

Thread

Canada fast-tracks Pacific oil pipeline to reduce US dependence

83 points · 96 comments · geox

  1. simojo · · focus · HN ↗
    So many people come and give doomer statements on the reality of the US and Canada becoming increasingly at odds.

    As a US citizen, I just want to add that I hope some day we can reestablish a healthy relationship with our neighbors. These articles are saddening.

    1. i80and · · focus · HN ↗
      Disclaimer: I'm American

      I don't see how Canada can trust us again without a major cultural and legal shift in the US. The fact is that any president can, apparently, unilaterally shred international friendships, and 30%-40% of Americans will cheer it on.

      I would love a return to normalcy, but Americans need to make sure, really sure this can't happen again.

      1. db48x · · focus · HN ↗
        Most don’t see it as Trump’s fault. The trade agreement between the US and Canada allowed both sides to renegotiate the terms every six years. It also allowed both sides to withdraw if those negotiations failed. Trump simply took that option and proposed to renegotiate, which Canada rejected. So Trump took the obvious next step, exactly as anticipated by the treaty itself, and withdrew from it. Nobody should have been surprised by that.

        Most Americans don’t have a problem with the content of Trump’s proposed treaty either. It would have lowered Canada’s tariffs on US dairy products down from 400% to whatever the US charges on Canadian dairy products. It would have allowed US banks to enter the Canadian market just as Canadian banks are allowed to operate in the US. Etc, etc.

        The Canadian government made the soup themselves.

        1. Teever · · focus · HN ↗
          This comment is full of misinformation.

          The US hasn't withdrawn from CUSMA. On July 1st it declined to extend the agreement past 2036, which isn't the same thing. The deal stays in force until 2036 with annual reviews, and no withdrawal notice has been given.

          It was also the US, not Canada, that declined to renew. Canada and Mexico both pushed for extension with the same administration that renegotiated NAFTA into CUSMA only a few years ago. So what changed exactly?

          Also, the 6 year review is about whether to extend the term. Withdrawal is a separate clause that a nation can use at any time on six months' notice. As I understand it the treaty doesn't set up "if negotiations fail, then withdraw" mechanism but IANAL.

          The 400% dairy figure is incredbily inflated. The steep tariffs, roughly 200-300% depending on the product, apply only above quota, and in quota imports come into the states without duty. The US also runs its own dairy quotas, and it's incredibly disingenuous to portray Canada as the overbearing protectionist entity in a scenario where Americans twice elected a leader running on an overtly and relatively unprecedented (in modern times anyways) protectionist policy.

          > The Canadian government made the soup themselves.

          On this we are in full agreement. The integration of the Canadian economy into the American one has placed Canada in a precarious place and only further decoupling from America and seeking trading partners abroad will change that.

          <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cassels.com&#x2F;insights&#x2F;cusmsa-still-in-force-notwithstanding-us-decision-to-not-renew&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cassels.com&#x2F;insights&#x2F;cusmsa-still-in-force-notwithst...

          1. db48x · · focus · HN ↗
            &gt; The US hasn&#x27;t withdrawn from CUSMA. On July 1st it declined to extend the agreement past 2036, which isn&#x27;t the same thing. The deal stays in force until 2036 with annual reviews, and no withdrawal notice has been given.

            &gt; Also, the 6 year review is about whether to extend the term. Withdrawal is a separate clause that a nation can use at any time on six months&#x27; notice.

            These are good corrections; I was merely oversimplifying. The main point is that what Trump is doing is not some kind of horrible betrayal, he is simply using the terms of the treaty as written. The treaty explicitly specifies how and when either party can renegotiate, decline to renew, and withdraw. You could argue that the treaty ought to have been more permanent than that, but then your beef is not with Trump but with the Canadians who agreed to the treaty as written.

Open on Hacker News to reply ↗

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.