Thread

Returning from vacation? The government can search your phone without a warrant

411 points · 378 comments · rbanffy

TrackerFF · 1790856519 · focus · HN ↗
Yeah, people are unfortunately not informed on just how much power border agents wield. Not only in the US, but in many (most I'd believe) other countries, too. I've worked on cases (intel side) where the law-enforcement side would just wait for the surveillance objects to cross the border, as that's where they could do most data collection with the least hassle.
If for whatever reason you think you're being investigated or surveilled (who knows for what these days, could be enough to just associate with the various protest groups / orgs), you can just assume that the border will be where they'll try to clone / download your data (phones, laptops, whatever)
1. kypro · 1790857063 · focus · HN ↗
  UK is crazy for this. Border police can detain anyone they like for literally no reason and if they do you have no right to lawyer or no right to silence. Your devices can also be taken and you must hand over any passwords.
  I know the UK is an authoritarian state and not really comparable to the US, but as a Brit it's kinda weird hearing Americans complain about flock cameras and arbitrary border searches – these are common place things in the UK and no one cares (well, apart from me and maybe one or two others).
  1. seanhunter · 1790857926 · focus · HN ↗
    That is not true. The specific powers of arrest and detention by UK border force were set out in this freedom of information response here <a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/uk_border_force_powers_of_arrest/response/1494571/attach/3/55583%20H%20Ali%20response.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1" rel="nofollow">https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/uk_border_force_power...
    Summary is they can’t detain people for no reason, they can detain people for specific offences relating to immigration and citizenship, customs and excise and also the normal stuff any regular police officer can arrest people for.
    I’m no apologist for how much state authority they have, but it’s not as bad as you’re making out.
    rdm_blackhole · 1790858344 · focus · HN ↗
    It is true.
    The UK border agents (technically counter-terrorism) can stop you at the border, force you into a room, ask for your passwords to all your devices and you don't have the right to refuse.
    You also don't have the right to a lawyer to be in a room with you and you are compelled to answer all their questions and they do not need to tell you why they stopped you.
    Then, if you are lucky they return your devices 7 days later after they have been through everything.
    This guy went through it last year and talks about what happens when they stop you: <a href="https://youtu.be/991kRp8KUmo?si=-5S1uLE7K9KG_gNj" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/991kRp8KUmo?si=-5S1uLE7K9KG_gNj
    suslik · 1790860112 · focus · HN ↗
    > you don't have the right to refuse
    What happens if I still do? Or pretend that I forgot my pin and accidentally lock my phone down?
    rdm_blackhole · 1790860887 · focus · HN ↗
    The guy in the video explains exactly that.
    If you are a UK citizen, they will charge you under the terrorism act if you refuse to answer their questions or if you try to conceal anything or if you refuse to provide all the passwords to all your devices.
    As for what happens when you can genuinely not remember your passwords, I honestly don't know. The guy in the video just gave them access to everything because he travels a lot and did not want to have to explain why he has a terrorism charge to his name every-time he has to apply for a new visa.
    Maybe you can refuse and stay silent and fight the charge later in court with a good lawyer but who knows. IANAL so do your own research before doing anything.
    As for what happens if you are a foreigner and refuse to unlock your devices/ answer their questions, they can deport you and potentially ban you from entering the country for a certain amount of time or indefinitely.
    ryandrake · 1790866632 · focus · HN ↗
    > As for what happens when you can genuinely not remember your passwords, I honestly don't know.
    This is pretty scary. I don't know any of my passwords because they are random strings of letters, numbers and symbols, and they're only kept in a password manager that sits on my powered-off PC at home. How do these border agents expect me to recite my passwords from memory?
    pmyteh · 1790965661 · focus · HN ↗
    Not necessarily a problem (for them). The police can serve you a s.49/RIPA notice with a "period for compliance which is reasonable under all the circumstances" (49(4)) so you can go home and get the keys. I expect they'd have grounds to impound your devices, though, if they've grounds for invoking RIPA at all.
    If you've genuinely forgotten/don't have the keys, that could be a bigger problem. It is a defence, if charged, not to actually have the key - and they do have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt if "sufficient evidence of that fact is adduced to raise an issue with respect to it" (53(3)(b)) - but that does ultimately involve convincing a magistrate or a jury.

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