Thread

1. TrackerFF · 1790856519 · focus · HN ↗

   Yeah, people are unfortunately not informed on just how much power border agents wield. Not only in the US, but in many (most I'd believe) other countries, too. I've worked on cases (intel side) where the law-enforcement side would just wait for the surveillance objects to cross the border, as that's where they could do most data collection with the least hassle.

   If for whatever reason you think you're being investigated or surveilled (who knows for what these days, could be enough to just associate with the various protest groups / orgs), you can just assume that the border will be where they'll try to clone / download your data (phones, laptops, whatever)

   1. kypro · 1790857063 · focus · HN ↗

      UK is crazy for this. Border police can detain anyone they like for literally no reason and if they do you have no right to lawyer or no right to silence. Your devices can also be taken and you must hand over any passwords.

      I know the UK is an authoritarian state and not really comparable to the US, but as a Brit it's kinda weird hearing Americans complain about flock cameras and arbitrary border searches – these are common place things in the UK and no one cares (well, apart from me and maybe one or two others).

      1. seanhunter · 1790857926 · focus · HN ↗

         That is not true. The specific powers of arrest and detention by UK border force were set out in this freedom of information response here <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.whatdotheyknow.com&#x2F;request&#x2F;uk_border_force_powers_of_arrest&#x2F;response&#x2F;1494571&#x2F;attach&#x2F;3&#x2F;55583%20H%20Ali%20response.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.whatdotheyknow.com&#x2F;request&#x2F;uk_border_force_power...

         Summary is they can’t detain people for no reason, they can detain people for specific offences relating to immigration and citizenship, customs and excise and also the normal stuff any regular police officer can arrest people for.

         I’m no apologist for how much state authority they have, but it’s not as bad as you’re making out.

         1. rdm_blackhole · 1790858344 · focus · HN ↗

            It is true.

            The UK border agents (technically counter-terrorism) can stop you at the border, force you into a room, ask for your passwords to all your devices and you don&#x27;t have the right to refuse.

            You also don&#x27;t have the right to a lawyer to be in a room with you and you are compelled to answer all their questions and they do not need to tell you why they stopped you.

            Then, if you are lucky they return your devices 7 days later after they have been through everything.

            This guy went through it last year and talks about what happens when they stop you: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;991kRp8KUmo?si=-5S1uLE7K9KG_gNj" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;991kRp8KUmo?si=-5S1uLE7K9KG_gNj

            1. suslik · 1790860112 · focus · HN ↗

               &gt; you don&#x27;t have the right to refuse

               What happens if I still do? Or pretend that I forgot my pin and accidentally lock my phone down?

               1. gib444 · 1790864491 · focus · HN ↗

                  &gt; Or pretend that I forgot my pin and accidentally lock my phone down

                  Err our policing and judicial systems weren&#x27;t born yesterday. You&#x27;ll be treated as having refused to unlock&#x2F;decrypt, as devices are so ubiquitous and people unlock tens or hundreds of times a day.

                  1. creata · 1790871116 · focus · HN ↗

                     I&#x27;ve seen ordinary people forget things they&#x27;ve done every day for years. It&#x27;s not something that never happens.

                     1. gib444 · 1790879777 · focus · HN ↗

                        I&#x27;m not saying it&#x27;s an impossible defence. But a jury has rejected the &quot;I forgot it&quot; defence in 3 or so cases IIRC

                        I&#x27;m just saying the police will unlikely drop their line of questioning after you claim you forgot the PIN. They&#x27;d probably then seek to prove you did know it - eg ask where&#x27;s your boarding pass is, ask if you messaged&#x2F;called anyone before&#x2F;during your flight, try to establish the time the phone was last used, reducing the period of forgetting etc

                        IANAL&#x2F;officer of course

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