My wife and I were out recently looking at ceiling fans to replace the one in our dining room, which has committed no crimes, other than having the appearance of being very much from the 1980s.
I was taken aback by how few of the fans had replaceable lightbulbs! In the entire store there were maybe three or four options with a replaceable bulb!
Call me crazy, but a nonreplaceable LED is a complete dealbreaker. I go through so many LED bulbs! I don't know if my electricity is like particularly bad or if that's just normal? The first LED bulb I ever bought (Shout out EarthLED) in 2008 for like $30 is still going strong, but every bulb I buy these days lasts like two years tops.
> DC fans are infinitely superior to AC fans (noise, torque, longevity, etc.), which is unfortunately why this became a thing.
What?
Every house I've ever lived in over my many decades of life has had ceiling fans. I've never known one to fail, never known one to be noisy, and never known one to have inadequate power. I've personally installed a couple and know those got wired straight into AC mains power... so unless they have a converter built in, I figure that every ceiling fan I've ever lived with has been AC powered.
Unless you've been working with absolute bottom of the barrel fans (and those fans are worse than I could possibly imagine), this smells like industry propaganda to me.
> There's no clean mechanism to control a fan's speed in-band on a normal AC wall switch.
OP is asking for a normal pull chain or switch... one that's attached to the fan housing, not some doodad that's embedded in the wall and needs to be specially wired into the fan electrics. I've been to the houses of a few friends that have had fans controlled with a handheld wireless controller, and I can confirm that that was -overall- way worse than hauling my ass up to pull a damn chain.
Where are you getting ceiling fans that don't squeak and/or hum? (Or perhaps, what are you doing to maintain them)
I'm pretty anti remotes and apps for things, but it's pretty handy when my spouse can start the fan from her phone in the middle of the night instead of waking me to go turn it on in the middle of the night.
Our current one isn't too loud and it has a nice range of speeds so you can run it without it getting super wobbly. But overall, I still dislike fans. :p
The ceiling fan in my bedroom was installed no later than 1981 (possibly a few decades earlier) and is utterly silent. On high you can hear the rush of air and thats it.
Not op, but we have old, AC ceiling fans that are wall controlled. They run 95% of the time, no maintenance, no squeaks, no nothing. Obviously anecdata, but this is representative of my entire life's experience with AC ceiling fans. I doubt these were either the cheapest fans nor the most expensive, fwiw. I'm sure the prior owner did nothing to maintain them either
I should have been more specific - yes, you can "dim" AC fans and it's purely electrical. "Dimming" DC fans and similar switching loads requires detecting shaped pulses, and is really dirty and not something you want to do.
> Where are you getting ceiling fans that don't squeak and/or hum?
Lowes? Home Depot? Any other reputable, major home appliance store? Where else does one get a ceiling fan? Are you buying yours from Amazon or Ali Express?
I don't know about those reasons, but an AC fan uses ~100W on low and my DC fan uses 5W. You tune out the hum, but the AC fans hum and the DC fans don't.
But I don't think torque or longevity are actual issues with AC fans. Just efficiency and noise.
DC fans don't have the hum, get up to speed faster, etc. They can operate at a far greater range of speeds and still maintain high power output. AC fans operate in a much narrower envelope.
> I figure that every ceiling fan I've ever lived with has been AC powered.
Every high-end fan sold today is DC. It's possible that you didn't see the power supply.
> way worse than hauling my ass up to pull a damn chain.
Many people have high ceilings where a pull chain couldn't be humanly reached. Sure, this might work if you have 8' ceilings. Which high-end fans have pull chains?
> Every high-end fan sold today is DC. It's possible that you didn't see the power supply.
a) I did a quick search and noticed that Hunter Fans sells many ceiling fans with AC motors at a variety of price points. [0][1] Do you consider what Hunter produces to be entirely mid-to-low-grade? Or are you doing the Scotsman thing where any ceiling fan that doesn't contain a DC motor cannot be high-end?
b) The manufacturer of the fans in my apartment is "Hampton Bay", which are readily available at Home Depot. If Home Depot hasn't fucked up their product categorization, nearly every fan they sell in the SF Bay Area today has an AC motor. [2][3] Given the price, I'd agree that the ones that Home Depot are selling are not high-end fans, but given that the ones in my apartment have given me trouble-free, zero-noise operation for fifteen years and have done the same for previous tenants for who knows how long, I don't see why I'd want a high-end fan.
c) Remember that I said "Every house I've ever lived in over my many decades of life has had ceiling fans. I've never known one to fail...". I've lived in my current place for ~fifteen years now. Even if the fans had been installed new just before I moved in [4] I'm fairly confident that DC-driven ceiling fans were -if available- an extremely high-end option in the US in 2011. Authoritative information is difficult for me to find, but I see weak indications that they didn't really become A Thing until 2020.
DC is much quieter and energy efficient. Can't comment on the longevity etc
Technology Connections "Ceiling fans: the simple idea we keep screwing up" YouTube video is interesting. The old old fans had oiled bearing baths and overbuilt motors, extremely overbuilt compared to today standards which means they'll probably keep going forever. If you are nerdy and interested it's worth a watch.
> There's no clean mechanism to control a fan's speed in-band on a normal AC wall switch.
I went through this pain when I bought ceiling fans a few years ago. Various manufacturers offer switches or remotes you can attach to the wall but that take batteries - the options for actual wired switches are slim. I ended up with a few hardwired Big Ass Fans wall controllers that work pretty well - but their current-gen wall controls are hardwired bluetooth remotes, which is subpar for something that's connected via wire. (And they cost $210/each, which is pretty egregious for a wall switch.)
> There's no clean mechanism to control a fan's speed in-band on a normal AC wall switch.
There absolutely is. If you have a fan with a light controlled by separate wall switches, you have two hots running to the fixture. Take one, and leave it unswitched always on to the fixture, and use the second switch (or fan controller) and use it as an input to the controller on the fan. Done.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen this implemented anywhere.
This message brought to you by the hours I've spent annoyed by exactly this misfeature in our new bedroom fan. Fanimation does sell a wall mounted remote that can be wired inline with a switch, so at least there's a single point for master power and a remote you can't lose. Unfortunately, there's a noticeable delay between flipping the switch and the light turning on.
> If you have a fan with a light controlled by separate wall switches,
This is common, but it's also not uncommon for only one circuit to be wired. The "clean" qualifier is because even if you have that line, you don't have a common DC ground.
> Unfortunately, I haven't seen this implemented anywhere.
Many Z-wave switches use the three-way traveler line for out-of-band signaling (instead of a traditional three-way switch arrangement.) (Homeseer, Inovelli, etc.) This line will communicate dimming, double taps, etc.
> There's no clean mechanism to control a fan's speed in-band on a normal AC wall switch.
There is.
I specifically purchased a Fanco Horizon DC fan as it has an optional physical wall switch which connected to the existing wiring for the fan it was replacing.
The caveat being if you use the wall remote, it's not compatible with the model with built in LED light fixture. This was a non issue for me as wanted to avoid any fan with built in LED light due to when the led panel fails, it'll be extremely difficult to replace vs having independent lights in the room.
I think most DC fans don't support wall remotes because it's cheaper and simpler not to, and provide a remote control instead. It's not a technical issue as you can absolutely find DC fans with wall controllers they are just harder to find.
Not an electrician, wiring diagram is page 7 if it helps: <a href="https://fanco.com.au/wp-content/uploads/manuals/horizon-manual.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://fanco.com.au/wp-content/uploads/manuals/horizon-manu...
mmm, I don't know if you'd call it clean but I have a late-1990s ceiling fan with a feature they called "fan flick" - turn it on, it comes on at the last selected speed. Want to change the speed? flick the power switch (toggle it quickly) and it changes by one notch. It's tedious, and you only get to change it one direction until it wraps around - but no wireless, no additional wiring, just "short power interruption" as a signal...
donatj · · focus · HN ↗
I was taken aback by how few of the fans had replaceable lightbulbs! In the entire store there were maybe three or four options with a replaceable bulb!
Call me crazy, but a nonreplaceable LED is a complete dealbreaker. I go through so many LED bulbs! I don't know if my electricity is like particularly bad or if that's just normal? The first LED bulb I ever bought (Shout out EarthLED) in 2008 for like $30 is still going strong, but every bulb I buy these days lasts like two years tops.
Anyway, we did not buy a fan.
christophilus · · focus · HN ↗
15155 · · focus · HN ↗
There's no clean mechanism to control a fan's speed in-band on a normal AC wall switch.
simoncion · · focus · HN ↗
What?
Every house I've ever lived in over my many decades of life has had ceiling fans. I've never known one to fail, never known one to be noisy, and never known one to have inadequate power. I've personally installed a couple and know those got wired straight into AC mains power... so unless they have a converter built in, I figure that every ceiling fan I've ever lived with has been AC powered.
Unless you've been working with absolute bottom of the barrel fans (and those fans are worse than I could possibly imagine), this smells like industry propaganda to me.
> There's no clean mechanism to control a fan's speed in-band on a normal AC wall switch.
OP is asking for a normal pull chain or switch... one that's attached to the fan housing, not some doodad that's embedded in the wall and needs to be specially wired into the fan electrics. I've been to the houses of a few friends that have had fans controlled with a handheld wireless controller, and I can confirm that that was -overall- way worse than hauling my ass up to pull a damn chain.
toast0 · · focus · HN ↗
I'm pretty anti remotes and apps for things, but it's pretty handy when my spouse can start the fan from her phone in the middle of the night instead of waking me to go turn it on in the middle of the night.
Our current one isn't too loud and it has a nice range of speeds so you can run it without it getting super wobbly. But overall, I still dislike fans. :p
apothegm · · focus · HN ↗
jdyer9 · · focus · HN ↗
15155 · · focus · HN ↗
I should have been more specific - yes, you can "dim" AC fans and it's purely electrical. "Dimming" DC fans and similar switching loads requires detecting shaped pulses, and is really dirty and not something you want to do.
simoncion · · focus · HN ↗
Lowes? Home Depot? Any other reputable, major home appliance store? Where else does one get a ceiling fan? Are you buying yours from Amazon or Ali Express?
coryrc · · focus · HN ↗
But I don't think torque or longevity are actual issues with AC fans. Just efficiency and noise.
15155 · · focus · HN ↗
DC fans don't have the hum, get up to speed faster, etc. They can operate at a far greater range of speeds and still maintain high power output. AC fans operate in a much narrower envelope.
15155 · · focus · HN ↗
Every high-end fan sold today is DC. It's possible that you didn't see the power supply.
> way worse than hauling my ass up to pull a damn chain.
Many people have high ceilings where a pull chain couldn't be humanly reached. Sure, this might work if you have 8' ceilings. Which high-end fans have pull chains?
simoncion · · focus · HN ↗
a) I did a quick search and noticed that Hunter Fans sells many ceiling fans with AC motors at a variety of price points. [0][1] Do you consider what Hunter produces to be entirely mid-to-low-grade? Or are you doing the Scotsman thing where any ceiling fan that doesn't contain a DC motor cannot be high-end?
b) The manufacturer of the fans in my apartment is "Hampton Bay", which are readily available at Home Depot. If Home Depot hasn't fucked up their product categorization, nearly every fan they sell in the SF Bay Area today has an AC motor. [2][3] Given the price, I'd agree that the ones that Home Depot are selling are not high-end fans, but given that the ones in my apartment have given me trouble-free, zero-noise operation for fifteen years and have done the same for previous tenants for who knows how long, I don't see why I'd want a high-end fan.
c) Remember that I said "Every house I've ever lived in over my many decades of life has had ceiling fans. I've never known one to fail...". I've lived in my current place for ~fifteen years now. Even if the fans had been installed new just before I moved in [4] I'm fairly confident that DC-driven ceiling fans were -if available- an extremely high-end option in the US in 2011. Authoritative information is difficult for me to find, but I see weak indications that they didn't really become A Thing until 2020.
[0] <<a href="https://www.hunterfan.com/collections/ceiling-fans-without-lights?filter.p.m.ProductTag.Control=Pull+Chain&filter.p.m.ProductTag.Motor_Type=AC+Motor&filter.p.m.ProductTag.Motor_Type=WhisperWind%C2%AE+AC+Motor&sort_by=manual" rel="nofollow">https://www.hunterfan.com/collections/ceiling-fans-without-l...>
[1] <<a href="https://www.hunterfan.com/collections/ceiling-fans-with-lights?filter.p.m.ProductTag.Control=Pull+Chain&filter.p.m.ProductTag.Motor_Type=AC+Motor&filter.p.m.ProductTag.Motor_Type=WhisperWind%C2%AE+AC+Motor&sort_by=manual" rel="nofollow">https://www.hunterfan.com/collections/ceiling-fans-with-ligh...>
[2] <<a href="https://www.homedepot.com/b/Lighting-Ceiling-Fans/Hampton-Bay/AC/Classic/N-5yc1vZbvlqZp4Z1z0jylqZ1z1yjby?sortorder=desc&sortby=price" rel="nofollow">https://www.homedepot.com/b/Lighting-Ceiling-Fans/Hampton-Ba...>
[3] <<a href="https://www.homedepot.com/b/Lighting-Ceiling-Fans/Hampton-Bay/DC/Classic/N-5yc1vZbvlqZp4Z1z0jylqZ1z1yjdq" rel="nofollow">https://www.homedepot.com/b/Lighting-Ceiling-Fans/Hampton-Ba...>
[4] ...I know how my landlord operates and they absolutely were not. Plus, why would you replace something that's working fine and never breaks?
tiew9Vii · · focus · HN ↗
Technology Connections "Ceiling fans: the simple idea we keep screwing up" YouTube video is interesting. The old old fans had oiled bearing baths and overbuilt motors, extremely overbuilt compared to today standards which means they'll probably keep going forever. If you are nerdy and interested it's worth a watch.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KWdCqpXB7A" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KWdCqpXB7A
Marsymars · · focus · HN ↗
I went through this pain when I bought ceiling fans a few years ago. Various manufacturers offer switches or remotes you can attach to the wall but that take batteries - the options for actual wired switches are slim. I ended up with a few hardwired Big Ass Fans wall controllers that work pretty well - but their current-gen wall controls are hardwired bluetooth remotes, which is subpar for something that's connected via wire. (And they cost $210/each, which is pretty egregious for a wall switch.)
mauvehaus · · focus · HN ↗
There absolutely is. If you have a fan with a light controlled by separate wall switches, you have two hots running to the fixture. Take one, and leave it unswitched always on to the fixture, and use the second switch (or fan controller) and use it as an input to the controller on the fan. Done.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen this implemented anywhere.
This message brought to you by the hours I've spent annoyed by exactly this misfeature in our new bedroom fan. Fanimation does sell a wall mounted remote that can be wired inline with a switch, so at least there's a single point for master power and a remote you can't lose. Unfortunately, there's a noticeable delay between flipping the switch and the light turning on.
15155 · · focus · HN ↗
This is common, but it's also not uncommon for only one circuit to be wired. The "clean" qualifier is because even if you have that line, you don't have a common DC ground.
> Unfortunately, I haven't seen this implemented anywhere.
Many Z-wave switches use the three-way traveler line for out-of-band signaling (instead of a traditional three-way switch arrangement.) (Homeseer, Inovelli, etc.) This line will communicate dimming, double taps, etc.
tiew9Vii · · focus · HN ↗
There is.
I specifically purchased a Fanco Horizon DC fan as it has an optional physical wall switch which connected to the existing wiring for the fan it was replacing.
The caveat being if you use the wall remote, it's not compatible with the model with built in LED light fixture. This was a non issue for me as wanted to avoid any fan with built in LED light due to when the led panel fails, it'll be extremely difficult to replace vs having independent lights in the room.
I think most DC fans don't support wall remotes because it's cheaper and simpler not to, and provide a remote control instead. It's not a technical issue as you can absolutely find DC fans with wall controllers they are just harder to find.
15155 · · focus · HN ↗
How did it work electrically? This is what I mean by "clean."
tiew9Vii · · focus · HN ↗
eichin · · focus · HN ↗