Thread

1. petcat · 1790821195 · focus · HN ↗

   You want to see what's really bad, a train wreck in slow motion, just look at what France is doing.

   They've been subject to EU Excessive Deficit Procedures for multiple years, must bring deficit-to-GDP ratio from ~5.8% down to 3% within 3 years despite virtually no GDP growth and complete political and societal paralysis about reducing any public benefit or welfare whatsoever.

   ECB will most likely get involved after 2029 to start austerity measures. You can predict how that will go over with the French public especially if Le Pen takes the presidency, which looks likely.

   Very tough times ahead and the EU is facing a critical point about its future.

   1. zmmmmm · 1790821670 · focus · HN ↗

      Everyone thinks they can grow their way out of deficits, but it's always a pipe dream. It results in a growth obsessed economic plan that then causes all kinds of other stresses (such as being petrified of cutting immigration, for example). So much of this is all happening in lieu of politicians just being willing to have honest conversations with voters and take a risk of blowback. But I think people are over it and will value authenticity these days enough that it's a false economy. Just tell people the truth.

      1. applfanboysbgon · 1790822174 · focus · HN ↗

         > But I think people are over it and will value authenticity these days enough that it's a false economy. Just tell people the truth.

         We have seen abundantly clearly that telling the truth is the worst thing you can do for your political career. The correct move is to lie, lie, lie, lie. Reality is completely irrelevant. All you need to do is tell them what they want to hear. Nothing else matters. They will not hold it against you if you break every promise you make. They'll vote for you again and in greater numbers if you ramp up the promises to even bigger lies, nevermind your track record.

         1. cindyllm · 1790822265 · focus · HN ↗

            [dead]

         2. zmmmmm · 1790822433 · focus · HN ↗

            It's true but I think it's symptom of the same problem - people feel they are constantly lied to so they throw up their hands and go with the nicest lie that appeals to their base instincts. They don't get an alternative of truth vs lie - they get "lie that agrees with my instincts" vs "lie that doesn't" and hence we get overwhelmingly populist politicians winning who have no real plan of competence to solve the problems or implement the promises they were elected on.
         3. KerrAvon · 1790822462 · focus · HN ↗

            most politicians cannot do this, to be clear.

            trump can do this. it is very rare. you try to do what trump did and you'd be sent to jail instantly.

            1. JumpCrisscross · 1790823314 · focus · HN ↗

               > most politicians cannot do this, to be clear

               Most voters cannot handle it.

            2. hattmall · 1790823821 · focus · HN ↗

               Sure, Trump lies, but it's not unique at all. Biden was going to cancel student debt, Obama was going to close guantanamo, end the Iraq War and have single payer healthcare, GWB's "Mission Accomplished"... etc. So Trump's general dishonesty about what he's capable of as President is par for the course.

               1. zmmmmm · 1790839489 · focus · HN ↗

                  Just because others broke promises it doesn't put them into the same class as Trump. He is a true "outliar" on this front.
               2. adjejmxbdjdn · 1790847973 · focus · HN ↗

                  Biden canceled student debt. A politically oppositional Supreme Court invented new powers to undo his move while allowing Trump far more.

                  Obama attempted to close Guantanamo. The political backlash was massive. He essentially ended the Iraq war leaving only a skeleton crew to work with the government.

                  Those are not even in the same universe as all the lies and corruption Trump has peddled.

                  Heck, Trump has had a dozen Mission Accomplished moments in the Iran war alone, compared to the 1 stupid photo op by Bush.

                  If anything, equating very different situations with Trump’s regular lies and corruption like this is why Americans are confused.

                  1. AnimalMuppet · 1790859299 · focus · HN ↗

                     The Supreme Court did not "invent new powers" to block (much of) Biden's student debt cancellation. Biden did not have the constitutional authority to do that in the way he tried to do it. Simple as.

                     As for Trump... he's attempting, like, 20 times the constitutional overreaches that previous presidents did. He's winning on some of them; on many he's losing. I wish he was losing on more of them.

               3. paulryanrogers · 1790855629 · focus · HN ↗

                  Biden and Obama genuinely tried to do those things? How is that a lie?

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