All the people saying kids should go into trades instead of college have clearly never done much manual labor. You know what sucks? Working under a sink. I’m guessing it sucks even harder when you’re 60
By the time you are 60 you are the one speaking to clients and getting the work in, planning it etc, then sending your workers out to do it instead of yourself.
To me this reads as naive as saying by the time you are 60 you should be a director or VP or whatever. The trades are just as much of a pyramid as white collar work is.
Anecdotally, I grew up in a very blue collar area and most of the 60 year old guys I knew were either medically retired (read: too fucked up to work anymore) or getting by through brute force and pain pills.
Agreed, My uncle worked as a tile setter for most of his life. Was very good at it, had his own company and contracted to other companies. I only ever heard good things about his work.
His knees were dead before he was 50. Never made it to "stable", has never owned a home, now living in a van in his 70s.
There were many other issues in his life which prevented things...don't get me wrong...but his case is more the norm from my observations of workers.
It is much easier to be a good "worker" than it is to be a successful one.
Also, Drug/alcohol use in the trades is incredibly common. As is the habit of planning your life around claiming unemployment every winter (at least in my area).
Growing up, my dad was really good friends with two general contractors.
They could not be different from one another, and that was the reason dad invested time in befriending both. When he needed something that only technically solved a problem by the barest of margins, he called the one guy. When he needed help patching the roof or any kind of visible finishing work, he called the other.
One was alright to have over for beers and roughly 100lbs over weight, the other was a formal dining room dinner kind of guy and was built like a model.
One lost his kid in the divorce and is still working today if he's not passed. The other built himself a grand house full of custom hardwood, beautiful hand-built spiral staircase in the foyer, all at the head of the neighborhood he built, and retired about 15 years ago.
Purely in terms of "can they do the job I expect them to do", both were perfectly competent. But the actual trade itself isn't what set them apart. Neither could understand the mentality of the other. "Why do all the extra work to make it look nice if all it's got to do is work" vs "If I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it right".
Their approach to the trade work showed in everything they did; one did verbal contracts, the other made sure every permit was pulled and gave you a receipt detailing the number of nails used. So, when the city put out for bids, only one of them was in any position to submit and win the contracts. He didn't win all of them because there's a multi-generational contractor with family in government but it'd be crass of the city to award all the contracts to that company, but the point remains that only one of these two had positioned themselves such that they could take and profit from larger jobs.
I like to say that the greatest cook in the world could be an ass of a restaurateur, and the world's finest restaurateur will need to hire fine chefs.
We all know brilliant techs that could never hack it in corporate, and people sailing through corporate without a lick of technical ability. While both are "in tech", they have very different goals that lead to very different daily work, very different career paths, and very different retirements.
I think every category of work has a spectrum of success, and it will be determined by a mix of ones ability, goals, and market forces.
johnhamlin · · focus · HN ↗
alt227 · · focus · HN ↗
freecodeio · · focus · HN ↗
bumblehean · · focus · HN ↗
Anecdotally, I grew up in a very blue collar area and most of the 60 year old guys I knew were either medically retired (read: too fucked up to work anymore) or getting by through brute force and pain pills.
Ccecil · · focus · HN ↗
His knees were dead before he was 50. Never made it to "stable", has never owned a home, now living in a van in his 70s.
There were many other issues in his life which prevented things...don't get me wrong...but his case is more the norm from my observations of workers. It is much easier to be a good "worker" than it is to be a successful one.
Also, Drug/alcohol use in the trades is incredibly common. As is the habit of planning your life around claiming unemployment every winter (at least in my area).
goodmythical · · focus · HN ↗
They could not be different from one another, and that was the reason dad invested time in befriending both. When he needed something that only technically solved a problem by the barest of margins, he called the one guy. When he needed help patching the roof or any kind of visible finishing work, he called the other.
One was alright to have over for beers and roughly 100lbs over weight, the other was a formal dining room dinner kind of guy and was built like a model.
One lost his kid in the divorce and is still working today if he's not passed. The other built himself a grand house full of custom hardwood, beautiful hand-built spiral staircase in the foyer, all at the head of the neighborhood he built, and retired about 15 years ago.
Purely in terms of "can they do the job I expect them to do", both were perfectly competent. But the actual trade itself isn't what set them apart. Neither could understand the mentality of the other. "Why do all the extra work to make it look nice if all it's got to do is work" vs "If I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it right".
Their approach to the trade work showed in everything they did; one did verbal contracts, the other made sure every permit was pulled and gave you a receipt detailing the number of nails used. So, when the city put out for bids, only one of them was in any position to submit and win the contracts. He didn't win all of them because there's a multi-generational contractor with family in government but it'd be crass of the city to award all the contracts to that company, but the point remains that only one of these two had positioned themselves such that they could take and profit from larger jobs.
I like to say that the greatest cook in the world could be an ass of a restaurateur, and the world's finest restaurateur will need to hire fine chefs.
We all know brilliant techs that could never hack it in corporate, and people sailing through corporate without a lick of technical ability. While both are "in tech", they have very different goals that lead to very different daily work, very different career paths, and very different retirements.
I think every category of work has a spectrum of success, and it will be determined by a mix of ones ability, goals, and market forces.