Thread

1. stingraycharles · 1790769649 · focus · HN ↗

   Playing the devil’s advocate: don’t “freedom of information” laws mostly apply to government agencies? If so, why would a private company provide this information?

   I personally believe at the very least the water usage is heavily overblown compared to the agriculture industry. Elecricity is a different issue, and governments should consider reporting requirements or something like that.

   Being angry with datacenter providers is not the solution. And they also need to be built somewhere, and that place is probably best where electricity is abundant and/or cheap.

   1. hnedeotes · 1790771565 · focus · HN ↗

      [dead]

      1. NDlurker · 1790772543 · focus · HN ↗

         Agriculture is incredibly wasteful because it's allowed to be. Water intensive crops are grown in dry climates with restrictions on everyone else.

         1. hnedeotes · 1790777038 · focus · HN ↗

            And so what, it's probably because it makes sense economically no? It seems tokens are wasteful too, yet here we are.

            Meat too is wasteful, but yet again, here we are. All these are direct result of choices made by the majority...

            1. vel0city · 1790777310 · focus · HN ↗

               > it's probably because it makes sense economically no?

               Only because the government forces the cost of the water to be $0 for those who got in early, a policy that's causing extreme issues ecologically and causing the collapse of tons of environments and screwing over many millions downstream.

               If we actually allowed the real price today it wouldn't be anywhere near economically sane to do such a thing.

               1. hnedeotes · 1790777773 · focus · HN ↗

                  Hmm. I live near some water intensive cultivations (olives, almonds, not USA) in a relatively dry area, but there's dam water at very cheap prices and obviously, for these products it's required, because otherwise you wouldn't have olive oils being sold at current market prices (already quite higher than just some 6 years ago), they would be astronomically higher. But this is to serve global markets. People in the region have done olive oil since forever without dam water, just not at this industrial scale.

                  But compared to meat and the whole chain of production required for that it certainly pales many moons below. Well, everyone loves their bacon.

                  1. vel0city · 1790778364 · focus · HN ↗

                     > but there's dam water at very cheap prices and obviously, for these products it's required

                     So yeah, an example of the government coming in and ensuring cheap water for this crop production at the expense of those downstream. You agree, if the government didn't artificially and massively change the hydrology of the area, this industrial level wouldn't really be economically possible. This can make sense and not be terribly destructive depending on the region.

                     I and the poster above were probably talking about the American Southwest. In this case, its even more extreme. Old land owners got the rights to flood their fields from the river water and dig massive canals to turn extremely arid deserts green. They get the right to have that water for free, forever, because the government gave them the land at one point in time in the past and allowed for that taking based on deeply flawed hydrological models. They use that for agricultural products sold worldwide, including growing alfalfa for Saudi Arabia in the deserts of Arizona[0]. The government won't go in and actually start putting restrictions or calling back their grants to that water allocations, and its resulting in environmental catastrophe for many parts of the region.

                     [0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pbs.org&#x2F;newshour&#x2F;politics&#x2F;in-drought-stricken-arizona-fresh-scrutiny-of-saudi-arabia-owned-farms-water-use" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pbs.org&#x2F;newshour&#x2F;politics&#x2F;in-drought-stricken-ar...

                     1. NDlurker · 1790788197 · focus · HN ↗

                        Yes, I was thinking of places like Arizona, California, central Washington. Even in the Midwest, farmers are allowed to drain aquifers.

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