Thread

1. laybak · 1790806804 · focus · HN ↗

   the Singaporean government is often described as having a "parental" approach. I guess this move would be on brand

   1. vovavili · 1790809717 · focus · HN ↗

      It's also known as being one of the very few countries actually capable of using state capacity to overcome serious social and economic problems. Godspeed.

      1. jb1991 · 1790811593 · focus · HN ↗

         It's also known as being one of the very few first-world countries actually without basic freedoms, like free speech, freedom of the press, etc.

         1. rahimnathwani · 1790817400 · focus · HN ↗

            UK? France? Germany?

            1. jb1991 · 1790817629 · focus · HN ↗

               France has a constitutional right to free speech since at least the 18th century, not sure what you mean. There is a Declaration of the Rights of Man, which is still part of France's constitution. France is also bound by the EU Convention on Human Rights. Why would you compare France to Singapore in this regard? That's strange.

               1. rahimnathwani · 1790818260 · focus · HN ↗

                  Google any of these terms to see examples of people who were actually fined for speech in France, after 1950, and well after the 18th century:

                  - Hervé Eon Sarkozy fine

                  - Éric Zemmour 3000 fine

                  - bardot degenerates 20000

                  - Je me sens Charlie Coulibaly fine

                  None of these were threats or incitement to violence. Just insults.

                  And you talk about a constitutional right to free speech since the 18th century, but mocking Catholicism could be prosecuted until 1881 (i.e. in the 19th century).

                  1. jb1991 · 1790824422 · focus · HN ↗

                     it's perhaps debatable, but the European (and French) legal frameworks do not recognize hate speech as protected free speech, so I suppose the concern (e.g. in the Bardot case) is if it was hate speech or not. Americans also do not support hate speech, though perhaps the way these are handled legally are different. I don't think this kind of exception is fairly applied to discredit what I wrote.

                     1. rahimnathwani · 1790825299 · focus · HN ↗

                        I said France does not have free speech, and gave an example of someone who was fined for holding up a small sign with the words "Casse-toi, pov'con" ("Get lost, you sad jerk").

                        If someone in France is not free to hold a sign that says "Get lost, you sad jerk" then France does not have free speech. That sign contains only words. It does not create any threat. It does not incite anyone to take illegal and/or violent actions.

                        You say "I don't think this kind of exception is fairly applied to discredit what I wrote" but I'm having trouble following your reasoning.

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