Thread

U.S. postal inspectors shut down website selling counterfeit postage labels

281 points · 169 comments · ilamont

joshmn · 1790721496 · focus · HN ↗
The USPIS (mentioned in the article) once came to the federal prison I was at to tell inmates that using stamps as currency was illegal.
There are flats and there are books. Flats are a sheet of 20 Forever stamps that you would get at a drug store. A book is 20 stamps, used or not used.
Generally there are different values associated with flats because you can get cash for them on the streets. You can get them to the streets via an officer if you're ballsy. Or you can just find discreet ways to mail them.
The value of a flat where I was at was about $13-$14 depending on your vendor. A book was generally worth $10. If you were buying bulk (and depending on who exactly you were buying from), that number could go down to $12 and $7 respectively.
If you were buying from someone that was running a ticket (sports gambling) they had more incentive to get rid of their stamps. Some people had tens of thousands of dollars of stamps in their property and they wanted to convert them.
If you were buying from someone running a store (think "buy and resell commissary"), their business model was dependent on flipping books of stamps in exchange for more commissary. They could sell a ramen for 3 stamps ($1.50) when it was worth just 50 cents.
Flats were easier to hide because they are, well, flat.
1. JLO64 · 1790723048 · focus · HN ↗
  As someone who mails a bunch of letters (as a hobby) I'm surprised to hear stamps being used this much nowadays! Just out of curiosity, how often did inmates actually use them to mail letters, or was it predominantly used as a form of currency?
  1. joshmn · 1790723459 · focus · HN ↗
    Great question: I would guess about 15% of the inmate population sends mail home on any given day. That number certainly jumps up if a facility is locked down, probably by at least double.
    JLO64 · 1790725296 · focus · HN ↗
    A follow-up if you don't mind.
    I have a friend who did some time a decade or so ago (I'm uncertain if it was a federal or state prison) and one thing I've noted about him is how much he values books, even stuff like manuals and outdated reference material (we're in a volunteer group and we were cleaning up a room with a bunch of trash). His explanation to me was that in prison there wasn't much to do and so he spent his time reading as much stuff as he could get his hands on.
    From your experience, would you say that the average rate of reading amongst inmates is higher than the general population? In person I've hardly met anyone who reads books other than for school assignments.
    cindyllm · 1790735034 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
    steezeburger · 1790738665 · focus · HN ↗
    > In person I've hardly met anyone who reads books other than for school assignments.
    I know a ton of people in person who read a lot for pleasure, but I'm sure it's kind of self selecting. Are you in college? College was the time in my life I read the least.
    Also, while I haven't been to prison, I've been to jail for a short cannabis related stay in the early 2010s. There is just so much less to do there that I ended up reading a whole book (2-300p) every day I was there. Many others had a book, but I'm not sure they were actually reading them. A lot of people in there were reading the Bible or some religious literature. Anyway, just my anecdote.
    JLO64 · 1790744097 · focus · HN ↗
    > Are you in college?
    Nah, I'm in my 20s but already graduated. That said, most of my friends are guys from a church group and are 40+. I take back what I said a bit though. I know two of them who like to read spiritual stuff, but the rest don't read books and do social media or TikTok only.
2. saalweachter · 1790728491 · focus · HN ↗
  I'm surprised to hear it's illegal to use stamps as currency, I wonder if that's just a prison thing.
  One piece of trivia that's stuck with me is that stamps were used as a substitute for coins when the latter were in short supply during the Civil War because of metal-hoarding. A 1-cent stamp was basically a paper penny, backed by the value of just being able to stick it on a letter.
  1. gblargg · 1790736466 · focus · HN ↗
    > I'm surprised to hear it's illegal to use stamps as currency
    It makes sense with forever stamps, because inflation doesn't hurt their value. If everyone used stamps instead of dollars, the government wouldn't be able to just print money to fund things. It's what the dollar should be (and was, before we went off the gold standard).
    Spooky23 · 1790739650 · focus · HN ↗
    Printing of money, coinage of silver, suspension of redemption and a dozen other schemes were used to control the money supply during the gold standard eras.
    There was plenty of volatility and inflation during those periods as well. The 16th century saw massive inflation in Europe, and the colonization and destruction of imperial China was driven by currency imbalances in trade.
    gucci-on-fleek · 1790743192 · focus · HN ↗
    > It makes sense with forever stamps, because inflation doesn't hurt their value.
    Inflation doesn't hurt their value, but the government can make the cost of postage lower at any time. This would be expensive and they would likely lose a lot of money, but it would still be a lot cheaper than quantitative easing.
    > If everyone used stamps instead of dollars, the government wouldn't be able to just print money to fund things.
    I realize that this isn't what you meant, but the government can literally just print more stamps whenever they want. In fact, stamps and dollars are both printed by the same company in Canada [0].
    [0]: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Bank_Note_Company" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Bank_Note_Company
    gblargg · 1790755940 · focus · HN ↗
    The stamps are backed (redeemable) by something real and fixed: shipping a first class letter. So they are more legitimate money (and not just currency) than dollars.
    blackguardx · 1790779759 · focus · HN ↗
    This implies you have more trust in the U.S. Post Office continuity of existence and function than the "full faith and credit of the United States."
    gblargg · 1790784037 · focus · HN ↗
    Just going by track record. The dollar has been reliable debased every year. Naturally if you have a time frame of decades, stamps would be ill-advised.
  2. Spooky23 · 1790739274 · focus · HN ↗
    There’s no law against it. Stamps are not legal tender, so you cannot compel someone to accept - it’s a private arrangement.
3. steezeburger · 1790738413 · focus · HN ↗
  Have you written more about this kind of stuff? I would love to read more! I find it absolutely fascinating. Prison economics and such. Thanks for sharing.
  Edit: just checked your profile and found your blog. Excited to read it! I think I've actually stumbled across your story before now that I see the website. Again thanks for sharing!
  1. yard2010 · 1790755104 · focus · HN ↗
    To anyone not knowing this dude - I really recommend reading josh.mn - the posts are interesting and well written, personally I love the philosophy of it. To Josh - you're such an inspiring person, thank you
  2. roussanoff · 1790795259 · focus · HN ↗
    You should check out Extreme Economies by Richard Davies. It's a book describing economic systems in extreme situations. I do not remember if it has a specific chapter on prisons though.
    steezeburger · 1790819402 · focus · HN ↗
    Even if it may not have a section on prisons, this is perfectly up my alley. Thank you for the recommendation!
4. drivingmenuts · 1790771279 · focus · HN ↗
  I think I have most of a roll of Forever stamps I bought almost 10 years ago (which shows how often I mail a physical letter)*. I'm guessing that was a wise investment due to inflation.
  * Which is also probably the last time I was in an actual Post Office.
5. [deleted] · 1790895144 · focus · HN ↗
  [deleted]

Open on Hacker News to reply ↗

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.