Thread

1. gradus_ad · 1790701889 · focus · HN ↗

   Ominous for the industry and investors that token price is becoming the main battleground. Could be Anthropic's rationale for IPOing this year.

   1. djfjkfkffkkf · 1790702466 · focus · HN ↗

      China will do to llms what they did to german cars

      1. bogrollben · 1790704027 · focus · HN ↗

         I guess I'm out of touch. What did china do to german cars?

         1. CamperBob2 · 1790704625 · focus · HN ↗

            Outcompeted them badly. Sent Porsche packing and BMW bawling.

            1. zigzag312 · 1790772317 · focus · HN ↗

               By being subsidised by the government.

               1. CamperBob2 · 1790785119 · focus · HN ↗

                  That argument doesn't hold much water in my opinion. VW AG is partially state-owned, with a double-digit percentage held by the federal state of Lower Saxony.

                  Meanwhile, in the US, companies like Boeing, GM, and Intel will never be allowed to experience more than minor financial inconvenience before the government bails them out with protectionism, loans, and outright subsidies.

                  I just don't see a material difference between how the Chinese government treats their strategically-important industries and the way we do here in the West.

                  1. zigzag312 · 1790856816 · focus · HN ↗

                     > VW AG is partially state-owned, with a double-digit percentage held by the federal state of Lower Saxony.

                     Yes, but those are two separate things. Lower Saxony owning part of VW doesn’t mean VW gets extra public money because of it.

                     High subsidy rates alter market dynamics. Can we agree on that?

                     1. CamperBob2 · 1790918161 · focus · HN ↗

                        For sure.

                        1. zigzag312 · 1790982774 · focus · HN ↗

                           The biggest subsidies for EV in Germany are subsidies to consumers, which apply also to Chinese cars.

                           Subsidies to manufacturers in Germany are much smaller than both: subsidies to consumers in Germany, and subsidies to manufacturers in China.

                           So, there are different subsidy types with different subsidy rates which all impact the market. Higher rates usually have a higher impact, but type of subsidy can also change what kind of an impact they have. Any comparison quickly becomes complex.

                           I posted some numbers in an other post [0], but the numbers are not exact.

                           Subsidy is also one of many factors. Of course you also need capable people and manufacturing capabilities which China also has. Subsidy alone is not enough, but if needed capabilities exist, subsidy at high rates can help tip the scales.

                           [0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=49920502">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=49920502

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.