> In fact, in some Canadian provinces, titles in computing such as “software engineer,” “computer engineer,” and others containing “engineer” are (in principle) reserved for people licensed as engineers by the provincial engineering regulator.
A most rational stance. One we should enforce here in the US.
Edit: Yes, I'm arguing that Software Engineer should be a licensed profession, but programmer shouldn't, and would be a fine substitution in the cases where you didn't need rigor.
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If I were an engineer, there's no way I would trust any interface to a control system for a water purification plant that connected to the internet and allowed for ingress of control. Just as an example.
The OPM hack of 2015[1] is the worst case, in terms of national security, that clearly proves no Engineers were involved in the design of their computer system. Ingress of control should be absolutely prohibited, and it wasn't. I don't know why that database was ever put into a computer, instead of filing cabinets in a vault, nor why it was ever connected to any other system, and not completely air-gapped in said vault, with manual controlled exfiltration of data upon request.
This is one of those silly suggestions that comes up repeatedly, and solves a non-problem: In both the U.S. and Canada there are many instances where work needs to be approved by a credentialed and legally licensed engineer. Banning the use of the job title “engineer” in the U.S. would not change anything. (It would run smack into the 1st amendment though… it’s legal for me to call myself the King of France, and the onus is on you to decide if that’s all the due diligence you need to do before engaging me in treaty negotiations.)
You probably couldn’t ban the term engineer completely. But states do have pretty wide latitude to regulate job titles. You can’t call yourself a Professional Engineer, Registered Nurse, CPA, or Psychologist for example.
The point is to have a reliable way to distinguish someone who actually accepts responsibility for the systems they build, from programmers with title inflation.
You can't easily discuss or legislate things that don't have solid definitions.
mikewarot · · focus · HN ↗
A most rational stance. One we should enforce here in the US.
Edit: Yes, I'm arguing that Software Engineer should be a licensed profession, but programmer shouldn't, and would be a fine substitution in the cases where you didn't need rigor.
--
If I were an engineer, there's no way I would trust any interface to a control system for a water purification plant that connected to the internet and allowed for ingress of control. Just as an example.
The OPM hack of 2015[1] is the worst case, in terms of national security, that clearly proves no Engineers were involved in the design of their computer system. Ingress of control should be absolutely prohibited, and it wasn't. I don't know why that database was ever put into a computer, instead of filing cabinets in a vault, nor why it was ever connected to any other system, and not completely air-gapped in said vault, with manual controlled exfiltration of data upon request.
[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Office_of_Personnel_Manag...
jt2190 · · focus · HN ↗
sarchertech · · focus · HN ↗
Commercial speech doesn’t enjoy absolute protection.
jt2190 · · focus · HN ↗
Yes, agreed but what is the point? What problem are we solving?
fyredge · · focus · HN ↗
You probably can't stop all smugglers You probably can't stop all teen pregnancies You probably can't stop all enshitification
But a well functioning society owes itself to try to keep itself accountable.
jt2190 · · focus · HN ↗
mikewarot · · focus · HN ↗
You can't easily discuss or legislate things that don't have solid definitions.
jt2190 · · focus · HN ↗