> In fact, in some Canadian provinces, titles in computing such as “software engineer,” “computer engineer,” and others containing “engineer” are (in principle) reserved for people licensed as engineers by the provincial engineering regulator.
A most rational stance. One we should enforce here in the US.
Edit: Yes, I'm arguing that Software Engineer should be a licensed profession, but programmer shouldn't, and would be a fine substitution in the cases where you didn't need rigor.
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If I were an engineer, there's no way I would trust any interface to a control system for a water purification plant that connected to the internet and allowed for ingress of control. Just as an example.
The OPM hack of 2015[1] is the worst case, in terms of national security, that clearly proves no Engineers were involved in the design of their computer system. Ingress of control should be absolutely prohibited, and it wasn't. I don't know why that database was ever put into a computer, instead of filing cabinets in a vault, nor why it was ever connected to any other system, and not completely air-gapped in said vault, with manual controlled exfiltration of data upon request.
So what about like "mechanical engineers" or "process engineers" or "hardware engineer" or "biomedical engineers" etc?
> I don't know why that database was ever put into a computer, instead of filing cabinets in a vault, nor why it was ever connected to any other system, and not completely air-gapped in said vault, with manual controlled exfiltration of data upon request.
I suspect this is not because of the fake engineers but rather because other forces, e.g. management wanted more efficiency and security was the last item on the list. I don't see how changing job titles would change anything here
FYI: Mechanical and hardware engineers, in the appropriate language of the country, are already protected engineering titles in a lot of European countries.
Calling yourself a „dipl. Ing. <X>“ would be a crime if you don’t possess the appropriate degree.
Yes, but at least in Germany the "Dipl." makes the difference. I think it'd be OK to call yourself a "Software Engineer" without a degree and this is what many people do.
AFAIK the actual reason why „Software Engineer“ is ok is because it’s in English.
Pretending to be an „Ingenieur“ is illegal unless you have the paper to back it up. But it doesn’t necessarily have to be a university paper, there are older trade papers that also work.
mikewarot · · focus · HN ↗
A most rational stance. One we should enforce here in the US.
Edit: Yes, I'm arguing that Software Engineer should be a licensed profession, but programmer shouldn't, and would be a fine substitution in the cases where you didn't need rigor.
--
If I were an engineer, there's no way I would trust any interface to a control system for a water purification plant that connected to the internet and allowed for ingress of control. Just as an example.
The OPM hack of 2015[1] is the worst case, in terms of national security, that clearly proves no Engineers were involved in the design of their computer system. Ingress of control should be absolutely prohibited, and it wasn't. I don't know why that database was ever put into a computer, instead of filing cabinets in a vault, nor why it was ever connected to any other system, and not completely air-gapped in said vault, with manual controlled exfiltration of data upon request.
[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Office_of_Personnel_Manag...
r_lee · · focus · HN ↗
> I don't know why that database was ever put into a computer, instead of filing cabinets in a vault, nor why it was ever connected to any other system, and not completely air-gapped in said vault, with manual controlled exfiltration of data upon request.
I suspect this is not because of the fake engineers but rather because other forces, e.g. management wanted more efficiency and security was the last item on the list. I don't see how changing job titles would change anything here
FabCH · · focus · HN ↗
Calling yourself a „dipl. Ing. <X>“ would be a crime if you don’t possess the appropriate degree.
weinzierl · · focus · HN ↗
FabCH · · focus · HN ↗
Pretending to be an „Ingenieur“ is illegal unless you have the paper to back it up. But it doesn’t necessarily have to be a university paper, there are older trade papers that also work.
weinzierl · · focus · HN ↗
Unfortunately I don't remember the details. I'd be happy to learn I was right after all;-)