I wonder how many HNers recall life in Delhi even 20 years ago? Cutting electricity loss is one thing, but getting rid of "load shedding" (unplanned power cuts) is the really revolutionary part. It was not uncommon for the power to go out several times a day and you had to rush to unplug expensive appliances (TV, laptop), because when the power came back it was often accompanied by a surge. My office was wired with two sets of electrical sockets, one connected to grid mains and the other connected to the UPS (for important equipment only).
I remember the inverse of that in Chennai -- scheduled running water for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evenings when we had to stockpile water in every container possible.
This trope is going to get you guys nowhere. The Gujarat riots started with burning of a train filled with Hindu Karsevaks by Muslims. Once religious riots start in India no politician can control it. It requires military intervention. Gujarat riots was curbed the fastest if you compare it to any other riot in Independent India. It was ended in 3 days. By comparison, 1984 Sikh riots took 4 days to end.
The historical debate was revived globally when a British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) documentary highlighted a previously unreleased, classified 2002 British Foreign Office report. The internal UK government report concluded that the violence was pre-planned and that the rioting had all the hallmarks of "ethnic cleansing," alleging that Modi was "directly responsible" for the political climate that allowed it. The Indian government banned the documentary domestically, calling it a biased piece of colonial propaganda.
I assume you are sincere in holding these beliefs and not just a bot inflaming politics.
In that case the general reason you are being dismissed now is you are doing a classic [whataboutism](<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism) - dismissing one wrong by pointing out another.
You should consider things in context, yes, but one wrong doesn’t make another wrong go away. If I kill your spouse, the fact that my spouse was killed (even by you) still makes it a murder. A country that doesn’t guard its sovereignty of violence famously stops being a country by definition - <a href="https://acoup.blog/2024/04/12/fireside-friday-april-12-2024/" rel="nofollow">https://acoup.blog/2024/04/12/fireside-friday-april-12-2024/
As someone who moved to India for personal reasons from Europe, this whole defending of Modi and his party policies seems so bizarre - there _are_ examples of countries in the region that got worse in the last 30 years (Pakistan) in the region, but there are soo many examples of others that got much much better. If you look what’s happening to all the other countries in Asia - India seems to be falling behind so hard it’s not even funny. And all thanks to the great leader. It could have been worse - yes, but it could easily have been so so much better.
And I usually go back to the “why nations fail” book that outlined the reasons of countries success and failure - it’s not rocket science - build and strengthen institutions and your country prospers, waken institutions for personal gain to you and your allies - country goes to the dumpster eventually.
The US are going a similar road btw, and it would be a very interesting example to point to eventually for the next editions of that book.
> I assume you are sincere in holding these beliefs and not just a bot inflaming politics.
Yet you replied like a bot without giving any statistics to prove "ethnic cleansing" of Muslims took place in Gujarat. While I gave you stats to show that not only Muslims are thriving in Gujarat, their population has increased by 1.5 million more since 2002. Then I gave a contrasting example of what an ACTUAL ethnic cleansing looks like and you had the audacity to dismiss it as "whatboutism". Have some fucking shame.
> In that case the general reason you are being dismissed now is you are doing a classic [whataboutism](<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism) - dismissing one wrong by pointing out another.
Huh? Claiming "ethnic cleansing", having literally no evidence to prove that and then when I give an analogy of what a real ethnic cleansing looks like resorting to saying it is "whataboutism" just reeks of malice.
> As someone who moved to India for personal reasons from Europe, this whole defending of Modi and his party policies seems so bizarre - there _are_ examples of countries in the region that got worse in the last 30 years (Pakistan) in the region, but there are soo many examples of others that got much much better. If you look what’s happening to all the other countries in Asia -
Please move back to Europe. I have been in India my entire life. I have personally seen how much India has progressed. We don't want foreigners coming to India with an agenda. Please pack your bags and leave.
> India seems to be falling behind so hard it’s not even funny. And all thanks to the great leader. It could have been worse - yes, but it could easily have been so so much better.
Exactly where is India falling behind? India is the fastest growing economy in the World. Either give numbers or STFU with your propaganda.
> And I usually go back to the “why nations fail” book that outlined the reasons of countries success and failure - it’s not rocket science - build and strengthen institutions and your country prospers, waken institutions for personal gain to you and your allies - country goes to the dumpster eventually.
With this ridiculous attitude we do not need people like you here. Please leave.
> The US are going a similar road btw, and it would be a very interesting example to point to eventually for the next editions of that book.
Have you been to China? Taiwan? Singapore? Thailand? Vietnam? Republic of Korea?
India is “growing” and it is “growing fast” nobody is denying that.
But if you go to the other places in Asia and see what they have accomplished, some after literally being bombed to the Stone Age by the Americans …
Bangkok is a bustling modern industrial clean and livable metropolis.
Delhi just recently “almost fixed its electricity blackout problems” … 2026…
Once you step out of the propaganda bubble, walk the streets and talk to the people on these streets it’s a very different picture.
I’ve overheard women talking to each other how one of them fell asleep in a cab at night, and the other one mentioned “OMG you are so lucky to live in Mumbai, you were safe” … like wtf place are you coming from. Turns out only in Mumbai women are safe in India…
You can _drink_ the tap water everywhere in Taipei. In Mumbai even the super mega ultra rich people need to buy filters for their water …
India is growing fast, it’s just that under Modi it has grown so much less than everybody around them, so you can start asking questions - where does all that generated wealth flowing into.
40 years ago Seoul was a shit hole, today it is just as virtually unaffordable for the locals as Mumbai, but it’s a city that makes the US and most of Europe jealous. No mineral wealth, no hydrocarbons, literal war at their border, and the people still built that marvel.
> Have you been to China? Taiwan? Singapore? Thailand? Vietnam? Republic of Korea?
These have had enough time to develop mate. All of them got investments way early because of aligning with the West. China literally was given special treatment (China detonated nuclear weapons in 90s and wasn't sanctioned by US. When India conducted reciprocal nuclear tests, we got sanctioned. Despite India being a democracy while China being a communist 1-party dictatorship). All of the countries you mentioned, except China, are vassals of the West.
Imagine funding and sleeping with brutal dictatorships like China, while simultaneously sanctioning India because the democracy chose to be non-aligned, while having the audacity to then lecture the country on why it hasn't developed yet.
> But if you go to the other places in Asia and see what they have accomplished, some after literally being bombed to the Stone Age by the Americans …
Like which part of Asia? Vietnam? Vietnam destroyed Americans.
As if India wasn't dried out by colonizing Europeans for 200+ years. The same "Crown Jewel of British Empire" turned into a "shithole" by the time we gained Independence. From 25% of World GDP down to 4% of World GDP by the time we kicked the Brits out. By all measures WE WERE taken to stone age by Europeans so that Europeans could build grand castles at our expense. Millions of Indians died fighting 2 World Wars that were not of our making but were Wars started and ended by the West. We suffered so you guys can build your empires after looting us, heck even stealing the Hindi word "loot" into your dictionaries. And after all that you come and tell us how to live. GTFO here.
> Bangkok is a bustling modern industrial clean and livable metropolis.
Again comparing a country that is a vassal of US with India that chose to be non-aligned.
All of the countries you mentioned have US bases and are heavily reliant on US. In exchange for this loss of independence, US threw some crumbs at them which they used for their development. None of them built their cities from scratch. It was all through foreign aid.
> I’ve overheard women talking to each other how one of them fell asleep in a cab at night, and the other one mentioned “OMG you are so lucky to live in Mumbai, you were safe” … like wtf place are you coming from. Turns out only in Mumbai women are safe in India…
More BS propaganda. Women in India are safe everywhere. The rape per capita in India is far, far, far less than developed countries like US. We literally have 715 million women in India. It wouldn't have been possible to have that many women if India was unsafe.
> You can _drink_ the tap water everywhere in Taipei. In Mumbai even the super mega ultra rich people need to buy filters for their water …
Sure. You can drink from tap water anywhere in Himalayas too. You can even drink directly from the springs. That means nothing at the end of the day. Developing cities have their own issues. Mumbai is not a developed city. Taipei is. Comparing two totally different cities on different stages of development is ridiculous.
Again, Taipei exists because of the grace of US. Without US, Taipei would be in the hands of communist China. All the development that these countries have experienced is purely because of US benevolence and funding.
> 40 years ago Seoul was a shit hole, today it is just as virtually unaffordable for the locals as Mumbai, but it’s a city that makes the US and most of Europe jealous. No mineral wealth, no hydrocarbons, literal war at their border, and the people still built that marvel.
Bruh. South Korea is like a State within India. It is tiny AF. Obviously it can grow quickly, especially when it has a big brother like US funding it in exchange for losing autonomy.
> but it’s a city that makes the US and most of Europe jealous
Don't be jealous. Your own politicians funded it with your tax payer dollars/euros. If they had invested in their own population you wouldn't have had to travel all the way to India to have a job. You would be working in US or EU.
> Great attitude dude, great attitude, slow clap.
I seriously mean it. Why stay in a Country that you find problematic? Indians who don't like India move to US purely because they like better lifestyle US provides. I have never seen anyone actively move to a Country that they hate.
> India is growing fast, it’s just that under Modi it has grown so much less than everybody around them, so you can start asking questions - where does all that generated wealth flowing into.
Just wanted to add to this. Modi came to power in 2014 mate. He has been leading India for just 12 years. If you had come to India in 2013, you would have seen how bad India was back then. If you had visited all the countries and their cities you named, they were ALREADY developed in 2013. Heck they were ALREADY developed in 2000s. You are comparing a DEVELOPING India under Modi with cities/countries ALREADY developed in early 2000s.
> Have you been to China? Taiwan? Singapore? Thailand? Vietnam? Republic of Korea?
Indians are one group of people who frequently travel the World. Infact we are EVERYWHERE. To the point where Countries have to impose restrictions on our entry. We know how other countries have progressed and how much they have developed. We are not stupid. We don't need Europeans to tell us that. Especially AFTER Europeans controlling India for 200+ years and turning it into a shithole before being kicked out. It pisses Indians like me off big time when we see Europeans complain about India. You losers had 200+ years to turn India into an oasis if you really wanted. You had the power to do so. You did not. You instead robbed my country dry. So STFU with your stupid sermons.
Supposed to be unbiased because "Internal UK government report"?. Both the train and the riots were crimes against humanity. Sorry if Indians don't believe shit coming from the UK.
motionlessveloc · · focus · HN ↗
Gangway0829 · · focus · HN ↗
shrikant · · focus · HN ↗
parthdesai · · focus · HN ↗
saonnet · · focus · HN ↗
parthdesai · · focus · HN ↗
blackoil · · focus · HN ↗
kshri24 · · focus · HN ↗
qwerty_sideshow · · focus · HN ↗
kshri24 · · focus · HN ↗
[dead]
seer · · focus · HN ↗
In that case the general reason you are being dismissed now is you are doing a classic [whataboutism](<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism) - dismissing one wrong by pointing out another.
You should consider things in context, yes, but one wrong doesn’t make another wrong go away. If I kill your spouse, the fact that my spouse was killed (even by you) still makes it a murder. A country that doesn’t guard its sovereignty of violence famously stops being a country by definition - <a href="https://acoup.blog/2024/04/12/fireside-friday-april-12-2024/" rel="nofollow">https://acoup.blog/2024/04/12/fireside-friday-april-12-2024/
As someone who moved to India for personal reasons from Europe, this whole defending of Modi and his party policies seems so bizarre - there _are_ examples of countries in the region that got worse in the last 30 years (Pakistan) in the region, but there are soo many examples of others that got much much better. If you look what’s happening to all the other countries in Asia - India seems to be falling behind so hard it’s not even funny. And all thanks to the great leader. It could have been worse - yes, but it could easily have been so so much better.
And I usually go back to the “why nations fail” book that outlined the reasons of countries success and failure - it’s not rocket science - build and strengthen institutions and your country prospers, waken institutions for personal gain to you and your allies - country goes to the dumpster eventually.
The US are going a similar road btw, and it would be a very interesting example to point to eventually for the next editions of that book.
kshri24 · · focus · HN ↗
Yet you replied like a bot without giving any statistics to prove "ethnic cleansing" of Muslims took place in Gujarat. While I gave you stats to show that not only Muslims are thriving in Gujarat, their population has increased by 1.5 million more since 2002. Then I gave a contrasting example of what an ACTUAL ethnic cleansing looks like and you had the audacity to dismiss it as "whatboutism". Have some fucking shame.
> In that case the general reason you are being dismissed now is you are doing a classic [whataboutism](<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism) - dismissing one wrong by pointing out another.
Huh? Claiming "ethnic cleansing", having literally no evidence to prove that and then when I give an analogy of what a real ethnic cleansing looks like resorting to saying it is "whataboutism" just reeks of malice.
> As someone who moved to India for personal reasons from Europe, this whole defending of Modi and his party policies seems so bizarre - there _are_ examples of countries in the region that got worse in the last 30 years (Pakistan) in the region, but there are soo many examples of others that got much much better. If you look what’s happening to all the other countries in Asia -
Please move back to Europe. I have been in India my entire life. I have personally seen how much India has progressed. We don't want foreigners coming to India with an agenda. Please pack your bags and leave.
> India seems to be falling behind so hard it’s not even funny. And all thanks to the great leader. It could have been worse - yes, but it could easily have been so so much better.
Exactly where is India falling behind? India is the fastest growing economy in the World. Either give numbers or STFU with your propaganda.
> And I usually go back to the “why nations fail” book that outlined the reasons of countries success and failure - it’s not rocket science - build and strengthen institutions and your country prospers, waken institutions for personal gain to you and your allies - country goes to the dumpster eventually.
With this ridiculous attitude we do not need people like you here. Please leave.
> The US are going a similar road btw, and it would be a very interesting example to point to eventually for the next editions of that book.
Go back to Europe then.
seer · · focus · HN ↗
India is “growing” and it is “growing fast” nobody is denying that.
But if you go to the other places in Asia and see what they have accomplished, some after literally being bombed to the Stone Age by the Americans …
Bangkok is a bustling modern industrial clean and livable metropolis.
Delhi just recently “almost fixed its electricity blackout problems” … 2026…
Once you step out of the propaganda bubble, walk the streets and talk to the people on these streets it’s a very different picture.
I’ve overheard women talking to each other how one of them fell asleep in a cab at night, and the other one mentioned “OMG you are so lucky to live in Mumbai, you were safe” … like wtf place are you coming from. Turns out only in Mumbai women are safe in India…
You can _drink_ the tap water everywhere in Taipei. In Mumbai even the super mega ultra rich people need to buy filters for their water …
India is growing fast, it’s just that under Modi it has grown so much less than everybody around them, so you can start asking questions - where does all that generated wealth flowing into.
40 years ago Seoul was a shit hole, today it is just as virtually unaffordable for the locals as Mumbai, but it’s a city that makes the US and most of Europe jealous. No mineral wealth, no hydrocarbons, literal war at their border, and the people still built that marvel.
> Go back to Europe then
Great attitude dude, great attitude, slow clap.
kshri24 · · focus · HN ↗
These have had enough time to develop mate. All of them got investments way early because of aligning with the West. China literally was given special treatment (China detonated nuclear weapons in 90s and wasn't sanctioned by US. When India conducted reciprocal nuclear tests, we got sanctioned. Despite India being a democracy while China being a communist 1-party dictatorship). All of the countries you mentioned, except China, are vassals of the West.
Imagine funding and sleeping with brutal dictatorships like China, while simultaneously sanctioning India because the democracy chose to be non-aligned, while having the audacity to then lecture the country on why it hasn't developed yet.
> But if you go to the other places in Asia and see what they have accomplished, some after literally being bombed to the Stone Age by the Americans …
Like which part of Asia? Vietnam? Vietnam destroyed Americans.
As if India wasn't dried out by colonizing Europeans for 200+ years. The same "Crown Jewel of British Empire" turned into a "shithole" by the time we gained Independence. From 25% of World GDP down to 4% of World GDP by the time we kicked the Brits out. By all measures WE WERE taken to stone age by Europeans so that Europeans could build grand castles at our expense. Millions of Indians died fighting 2 World Wars that were not of our making but were Wars started and ended by the West. We suffered so you guys can build your empires after looting us, heck even stealing the Hindi word "loot" into your dictionaries. And after all that you come and tell us how to live. GTFO here.
> Bangkok is a bustling modern industrial clean and livable metropolis.
Again comparing a country that is a vassal of US with India that chose to be non-aligned.
All of the countries you mentioned have US bases and are heavily reliant on US. In exchange for this loss of independence, US threw some crumbs at them which they used for their development. None of them built their cities from scratch. It was all through foreign aid.
> I’ve overheard women talking to each other how one of them fell asleep in a cab at night, and the other one mentioned “OMG you are so lucky to live in Mumbai, you were safe” … like wtf place are you coming from. Turns out only in Mumbai women are safe in India…
More BS propaganda. Women in India are safe everywhere. The rape per capita in India is far, far, far less than developed countries like US. We literally have 715 million women in India. It wouldn't have been possible to have that many women if India was unsafe.
> You can _drink_ the tap water everywhere in Taipei. In Mumbai even the super mega ultra rich people need to buy filters for their water …
Sure. You can drink from tap water anywhere in Himalayas too. You can even drink directly from the springs. That means nothing at the end of the day. Developing cities have their own issues. Mumbai is not a developed city. Taipei is. Comparing two totally different cities on different stages of development is ridiculous.
Again, Taipei exists because of the grace of US. Without US, Taipei would be in the hands of communist China. All the development that these countries have experienced is purely because of US benevolence and funding.
> 40 years ago Seoul was a shit hole, today it is just as virtually unaffordable for the locals as Mumbai, but it’s a city that makes the US and most of Europe jealous. No mineral wealth, no hydrocarbons, literal war at their border, and the people still built that marvel.
Bruh. South Korea is like a State within India. It is tiny AF. Obviously it can grow quickly, especially when it has a big brother like US funding it in exchange for losing autonomy.
> but it’s a city that makes the US and most of Europe jealous
Don't be jealous. Your own politicians funded it with your tax payer dollars/euros. If they had invested in their own population you wouldn't have had to travel all the way to India to have a job. You would be working in US or EU.
> Great attitude dude, great attitude, slow clap.
I seriously mean it. Why stay in a Country that you find problematic? Indians who don't like India move to US purely because they like better lifestyle US provides. I have never seen anyone actively move to a Country that they hate.
kshri24 · · focus · HN ↗
Just wanted to add to this. Modi came to power in 2014 mate. He has been leading India for just 12 years. If you had come to India in 2013, you would have seen how bad India was back then. If you had visited all the countries and their cities you named, they were ALREADY developed in 2013. Heck they were ALREADY developed in 2000s. You are comparing a DEVELOPING India under Modi with cities/countries ALREADY developed in early 2000s.
> Have you been to China? Taiwan? Singapore? Thailand? Vietnam? Republic of Korea?
Indians are one group of people who frequently travel the World. Infact we are EVERYWHERE. To the point where Countries have to impose restrictions on our entry. We know how other countries have progressed and how much they have developed. We are not stupid. We don't need Europeans to tell us that. Especially AFTER Europeans controlling India for 200+ years and turning it into a shithole before being kicked out. It pisses Indians like me off big time when we see Europeans complain about India. You losers had 200+ years to turn India into an oasis if you really wanted. You had the power to do so. You did not. You instead robbed my country dry. So STFU with your stupid sermons.
throwaway7783 · · focus · HN ↗