Thread

1. 2ss · 1790639528 · focus · HN ↗

   2 things can be true:

   -LLMs profoundly change society -The LLM business is mangled in terms of ROIC vs CoC

   Such a business already exists - airlines.

   This nuance is what many here refuse/find difficult to understand.

   1. elzbardico · 1790641967 · focus · HN ↗

      Frankly, outside of coding there's no much real use for AI, which is basically NLP.

      1. minimaxir · 1790642057 · focus · HN ↗

         There's, uh, a reason ChatGPT is one of the biggest consumer apps of all time.

         1. dubbie99 · 1790642242 · focus · HN ↗

            That nobody uses on their phones. It’s like that install of angrybirds everyone has that they haven’t touched in a decade

            1. pjerem · 1790642699 · focus · HN ↗

               You are living in another world. I don’t know a single people who is not using ChatGPT, Gemini or Claude. Even my non tech parents are using it everyday.
            2. minimaxir · 1790642918 · focus · HN ↗

               As of today, ChatGPT is the #4 Top Free app on the US iOS App Store: this chart only measures new/recent downloads.

               The #1 and #2 apps are non-coding, pure consumer AI applications (Meta Muse and Momo).

         2. elzbardico · 1790642313 · focus · HN ↗

            How many people are going to pay a 20 dollars subscription for it?

            1. minimaxir · 1790642477 · focus · HN ↗

               That is not relevant to your assertion of "AI has no real use besides NLP."
            2. trollbridge · 1790642598 · focus · HN ↗

               apparently very few people - I know tons of people who use it and almost nobody who pays for it, particularly outside of tech

               1. karlshea · 1790658615 · focus · HN ↗

                  Well that's why they're going to start injecting ads.

                  1. hajile · 1790696473 · focus · HN ↗

                     Ads in AI are problematic in a big way.

                     How do you add them? Inside the model has tons of problems. From user context makes a bit more sense, but how do you decide and how do you ensure the context is actually beneficial for the company paying for the ads (advertisers are very sensitive about what content gets subconsciously associated with their brand).

                     How do you make sure a human sees them? This is a very hard problem even in normal ads and seems even more problematic with chatbots.

                     How do you attract advertiser dollars? Ad spending is zero-sum. You must somehow convince advertisers that your chatbot is a better ad platform than Youtube, Facebook, etc.

                     The only AI solution that seems reasonable is something like Google's AI search because the RAG backend ensures Google can control where ads show effectively through deterministic means (based on the websites it pulls). Google also has the ad network, consumer base, and provable humans to drive up ad value (this is without mentioning that Gemini falls behind on coding/math benchmarks, but seems to be better at "normie" interactions).

                     None of this helps any of the AI startups and running all this extra stuff for the same ad revenue cuts Google's profit margins too.

      2. aeon_ai · 1790642226 · focus · HN ↗

         "Generate me an explainer video of someone holding a sign stating "I have no idea what I'm talking about" being educated about the realities of time, labor, and 'good enough'"

         You're right. I didn't even need AI to get my point across.

         1. applfanboysbgon · 1790642406 · focus · HN ↗

            If that's your idea of "real use", you're really reinforcing their point.

            1. margalabargala · 1790651218 · focus · HN ↗

               Explainer videos aren't real use?

               I mean, if self education isn't a "real use", I wonder why all those libraries decided to dedicate all that shelf space to nonfiction books?

               Wikipedia could probably save a lot of hard drive space too.

               1. applfanboysbgon · 1790651298 · focus · HN ↗

                  Absolute slopshit "explainers" are not real use, no.

                  1. aeon_ai · 1790652445 · focus · HN ↗

                     On every objective measure, quality is improving and the trendline is clear.

                     I'm by no means citing that AI is perfect, or that there are no problems or challenges ahead, but the self-lobotomizing AI doomerism/rejection is turning otherwise intelligent people into a horde of anti-AI lemmings that are afraid to apply the critical thinking they believe is being lost by AI users.

                     These things are puppeteering blender to model things for gods sake. Are you all blind?

                     1. applfanboysbgon · 1790654749 · focus · HN ↗

                        [dead]

                     2. owebmaster · 1790682226 · focus · HN ↗

                        > On every objective measure, quality is improving and the trendline is clear.

                        Where? I can't find one company that did "AI layoffs" and their app/services got better. Give me just one good example please

      3. vlovich123 · 1790649025 · focus · HN ↗

         Funny, I don’t remember NLP being useful as a coding agent or solving cutting edge math problems.

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