It costs 20x more than the Chinese models I use. I just don’t need them anymore. Sure I’d use them if forced to for a job, but I don’t pay them outside of that anymore.
And my job won’t even pay for Claude now because it’s so ruinously expensive.
Not him but 3 models dominate: GLM 5.3, Qwen 3.8, Mimo 2.6. All censoring certain things. Numbers and other uses are perfectly fine. They are like 0.10-0.15 per 1M tokens. American AI lost the game already, people just can't see it.
> American AI lost the game already, people just can't see it.
Microsoft has been releasing dog shit insanely overpriced software with decent alternatives for decades and is still used in every single company I work for or with.
Your take is the "current year is the year of the linux desktop" meme of "ai"
The difference is that Microsoft did that while relying on the extremely load bearing windows ecosystem. These AI companies have no equivalent lock in, nothing even close to it honestly.
I can guarantee you 80% of people will call any llm "a chatgpt", most have never heard of claude, even less of opus, or sonnet, "deepseek" probably reminds them of a brand of toothpaste or something like that, "GLM" might make them think of the new mercedes SUV perhaps. 99.9% will never self host, nor send a single sent to a chinese model provider.
I don't know a single company using deepseek internally in any capacity, and I have friends in a lot of tech/tech heavy companies, virtually all of them use claude, the lucky ones get cursor with claude/chatgpt/grok.
Once again, just like your other reply, you are mixing things up- a logical fallacy called the straw man; look it up. Your responses usually use this type of misdirection. Coding agent =/= API.
AI does not mean coders coding with agents all day long. AI integration is mostly for data processing, which is the promise and use of the APIs.
Most people I know working in banks etc are using Co-pilot. Not because it is any good, because it integrates with the entire MS ecosystem - management pushes it. I would suspect that is the main driver of MS's AI penetration numbers for desktop-level non-API usage.
People use them, if for no other reason, because they are cheap, or are part of the Chromebook generation and have gotten used to it
Of their suite, Presentation and Sheets are the only ones people really have gripes about, Sheets by power users because it isn't Excel and it can never be, and Presentations because it's the ugly duckling of the suite
Huh. I’ve never worked at a company that doesn’t primarily/exclusively use Google Docs/Sheets/Slides. Guess that goes to show we’re really all in our own little bubble.
You're a decent sized company and wants to manage the SW + security on all your employee's PCs. They need to be able to update/remote SW on your machine remotely, see your settings, etc.
I don't think anything comes close to Microsoft's offerings. Macs suck. Ditto Linux.
When Microsoft did that there wasn't really any competition and they were also the cheap option. I don't think they would survive if there was a sufficiently good chinese OS at the time.
It could be a Linux vs Mac/Win situation though. Sure the HN crowd will build their own harnesses and hook up cheaper models but the average Joe Sixpack wants something that "just works" out of box and the frontier labs seems well positioned to give that to them.
From my experience GLM 5.3 is at most 6 months away from the frontier models, and good enough for most tasks already
Even 5.2 is doing really well in comparison here: <a href="https://labs.scale.com/leaderboard/sweatlas-refactoring" rel="nofollow">https://labs.scale.com/leaderboard/sweatlas-refactoring
The reason why that happens is not really Europe's fault. Any remotely-competent developer just works for US companies, why would they not? Especially for AI, there just isn't enough investments in the EU to offer those salaries.
They are just not overcharging. Nvidia's top AI chip Rubin sells in 72-GPU racks for about $3.5–7.8M. A rack running Xiaomi's MiMo V2.6 Pro generates roughly 150–300B tokens a day, worth about $130–260k at Xiaomi's API price.
That's a payback of the infrastructure in a few weeks in theory. After a few weeks or a month, the only cost is electricity, and whatever they make after that is pure profit. This is why they can charge normal prices. Not $50 for 1M tokens.
OpenAI and Anthropic have both transitioned into product companies. ChatGPT (the app) and Claude are both one-click installs that just work. People and businesses with pay for this.
People will also pay for the best (or the perception of being the best). Since it's hard to tell what "intelligence" really means model to model, there's a sense of safety in giving a task to the "best".
The usage numbers tell a different story. Not only is the great majority of AI users on American frontier providers, they are also willing to pay the premium price for the premium product. It's not like tech is oblivious to the Chinese models. It's that the industry is aware they are always 6 months to a year behind.
You didn't discover some new trick for cost performance. And the rest of the world isn't dumb.
You're just too broke to afford the supercar and justifying the hooptie. It gets you to the kindergarten class after all. And that's all you need.
MisterMunchkin · · focus · HN ↗
And my job won’t even pay for Claude now because it’s so ruinously expensive.
edu · · focus · HN ↗
system2 · · focus · HN ↗
zarmin · · focus · HN ↗
beveradb · · focus · HN ↗
toasty228 · · focus · HN ↗
Microsoft has been releasing dog shit insanely overpriced software with decent alternatives for decades and is still used in every single company I work for or with.
Your take is the "current year is the year of the linux desktop" meme of "ai"
Lord-Jobo · · focus · HN ↗
toasty228 · · focus · HN ↗
system2 · · focus · HN ↗
toasty228 · · focus · HN ↗
cromka · · focus · HN ↗
system2 · · focus · HN ↗
AI does not mean coders coding with agents all day long. AI integration is mostly for data processing, which is the promise and use of the APIs.
noisy_boy · · focus · HN ↗
system2 · · focus · HN ↗
toasty228 · · focus · HN ↗
system2 · · focus · HN ↗
[dead]
joseda-hg · · focus · HN ↗
People use them, if for no other reason, because they are cheap, or are part of the Chromebook generation and have gotten used to it
Of their suite, Presentation and Sheets are the only ones people really have gripes about, Sheets by power users because it isn't Excel and it can never be, and Presentations because it's the ugly duckling of the suite
conception · · focus · HN ↗
madeofpalk · · focus · HN ↗
presentation · · focus · HN ↗
BeetleB · · focus · HN ↗
I don't think anything comes close to Microsoft's offerings. Macs suck. Ditto Linux.
SSLy · · focus · HN ↗
csomar · · focus · HN ↗
fearmerchant · · focus · HN ↗
tripleee · · focus · HN ↗
Even 5.2 is doing really well in comparison here: <a href="https://labs.scale.com/leaderboard/sweatlas-refactoring" rel="nofollow">https://labs.scale.com/leaderboard/sweatlas-refactoring
swingandamiss · · focus · HN ↗
etatester · · focus · HN ↗
case540 · · focus · HN ↗
nehal3m · · focus · HN ↗
keyworkorange · · focus · HN ↗
system2 · · focus · HN ↗
That's a payback of the infrastructure in a few weeks in theory. After a few weeks or a month, the only cost is electricity, and whatever they make after that is pure profit. This is why they can charge normal prices. Not $50 for 1M tokens.
jpgvm · · focus · HN ↗
anvuong · · focus · HN ↗
ndm000 · · focus · HN ↗
OpenAI and Anthropic have both transitioned into product companies. ChatGPT (the app) and Claude are both one-click installs that just work. People and businesses with pay for this.
People will also pay for the best (or the perception of being the best). Since it's hard to tell what "intelligence" really means model to model, there's a sense of safety in giving a task to the "best".
Art9681 · · focus · HN ↗
You didn't discover some new trick for cost performance. And the rest of the world isn't dumb.
You're just too broke to afford the supercar and justifying the hooptie. It gets you to the kindergarten class after all. And that's all you need.