Thread

1. saturn_vk · 1790616232 · focus · HN ↗

   It's sad that most world leaders do nothing to combat such genocide. There are so few sanctions against the state, or specific people, of Israel. Foreign forums are very much still open for business to them.

   1. bamboozled · 1790636445 · focus · HN ↗

      What do you think world leaders should've done differently?

      1. sdenton4 · 1790637619 · focus · HN ↗

         Cut off weapon gifts+sales to Israel, impose sanctions. Same way we dealt with the South African apartheid state.

         1. lelanthran · 1790666805 · focus · HN ↗

            > Same way we dealt with the South African apartheid state.

            Who's this "we" who dealt with the SA apartheid state?

            The international pressure on SA did absolutely nothing to change their mind (I'm old enough to have seen PW Botha's Rubicon speech live on TV). The NP (political party in charge) was slowly and carefully convinced to push out the hardliners.

            The people left, like FW De Clerk, actually did the dismantling - unbanned the ANC, released Mandfela from prison, switched to allowing black voters, etc.

            The rest of the world's pressure had absolutely no effect on the leadership. Change only came when leadership started changing.

            See this for more background: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Negotiations_to_end_apartheid_in_South_Africa#Early_contact:_1980s" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Negotiations_to_end_apartheid_...

            1. sdenton4 · 1790689899 · focus · HN ↗

               The actual on the ground resistance was of central importance in the end of South African apartheid, but the international pressure and sanctions greatly increased the need for negotiations to begin. The point is to increase the pressure to change leadership through democratic means.

               This could hopefully happen somewhat faster with Israel, given that the government isn&#x27;t a literal Nazi remnant, as the South African government was. (Though, ironically, the main arms supplier to South Africa during the arms embargo was Israel, often reselling weapons from the United States. Sigh.)

               &quot;By the late 1980s, the South African state was in profound crisis, crippled by international sanctions, a stagnant economy, and widespread resistance. Recognizing the unsustainable nature of the perpetual conflict, the government under P.W. Botha began tentative, secret contact with the imprisoned Nelson Mandela and the exiled African National Congress (ANC) leaders.&quot;

               <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;History_of_South_Africa_(1948%E2%80%931994)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;History_of_South_Africa_(1948%...

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