Thread

1. ValueTheory · 1790606717 · focus · HN ↗

   "The parents of the student who assaulted me sued the district, claiming it had failed to prevent the incident. Suddenly, I found myself on phone calls with administrators and attorneys questioning whether I had done enough to stop the assault."

   This is the root of the problem. Of course, civil lawsuits are important to correct actual wrongs, but school districts seem to be so cowardly in the face of bad lawsuits that they are willing to throw teachers under the bus to avoid them.

   1. igetspam · 1790608732 · focus · HN ↗

      That is a problem but it’s definitely not the root. The root is our increasingly high tolerance for violence, especially in schools. We should also stop shying away from the gendered aspects of the thing: this is done by boys and men FAR more than girls and women. We just don’t like to talk about it.

      We need to address violent tendencies in males and our ludicrous willingness to not see the reality of it.

      1. watwut · 1790609373 · focus · HN ↗

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         1. rayiner · 1790610889 · focus · HN ↗

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            1. verdverm · 1790624753 · focus · HN ↗

               both extremes have really bad takes, the middle path is the way

               The underlying basis for current "conservatives inspire more violence" is largely drawn from clips taken from the manosphere-podcast realm. There is an amount of war hawks always being on the right that predates all of this.

               I've seen similar from the left wing, though they don't have good podcast game or modern communication generally.

               1. rayiner · 1790625440 · focus · HN ↗

                  The people setting disciplinary standards in schools aren’t childless manosphere “podcast” bros. It’s parents, teachers, and administrators. Out of those, you do have the “war hawk” types. But they exercise violence in a very abstract way. I guarantee you Dick Cheney’s kids wouldn’t have dreamed of talking back to a teacher, much less laid a hand on one.

                  I grew up around the Dick Cheney type back when northern virginia was a red area in an even redder state. I recall almost no fights between students, much less anyone attacking faculty. Hitting a teacher would have gotten you sent to some alternative school with armed guards.

                  1. verdverm · 1790625866 · focus · HN ↗

                     Are you familiar with Mom&#x27;s for Liberty? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.momsforliberty.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.momsforliberty.org&#x2F;

                     They have a whole effort around conservative activism through school board membership. They love their book bans.

                     &gt; exercise violence in a very civilized way

                     there is nothing civilized about violence

                     1. rayiner · 1790629341 · focus · HN ↗

                        Yeah, my wife is friends with one of the founders. They are conservatives who don’t want to use taxpayer dollars to pay for books in schools that contain material they find objectionable. Their kids are super fucking well behaved. These are the types of people who ran the Virginia schools when I was growing up in the 1990s. We had Bill Clinton-funded abstinence-focused education in northern Virginia back then. Violence against teachers was unheard of back then.

                        In the last 10-15 years, traditional conservatives have largely been pushed out of school administration, even in places like my current county, which was a Romney 2012 county. Groups like Moms4Liberty have zero influence on how schools discipline kids.

                        &gt; there is nothing civilized about violence

                        Violence against potential threats is necessary for the maintenance of civilization. But violence against elders within your community, which is what we’re talking about here, is completely unacceptable.

                        1. verdverm · 1790632624 · focus · HN ↗

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                           1. rayiner · 1790635036 · focus · HN ↗

                              What part do you dispute? Are you saying that kids of christian conservatives are known for hitting teachers in schools? You’re making a very bizarre argument here.

                              Or are you disagreeing that violence is necessary to maintain civilization. Why do you think literally every country has police and an army?

               2. watwut · 1790692611 · focus · HN ↗

                  Yes, but I am not even talking about that. I am talking about conservative ideal of masculinity as projected by evangelicals demanding &quot;more muscular Christianity&quot;, conservative pundits, opinion writers, preachers, politicians and thinkers. And as practiced by Hegseth, Vance, Proud Boys and so on and so on.

                  Manosphere is just the same thing, but more open and direct rather then hidden. Dominance and subjugations are the one and only way to be manly, caring about others is not. Caring is accepted only as part of leaderships role. It is philosophy that alienates. It also leads to violence, partly because you have no real solution to &quot;others dont really accept your dominance&quot; situation and partly because resulting relationships are unsatisfactory anyway.

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