Thread

1. cmiles8 · 1790590664 · focus · HN ↗

   Headline is misleading. Cheaper on per-mile operating costs but typically more expensive to purchase and insure. There’s also a nasty depreciation curve to contend with. Nobody wants a 10 year old Tesla, but a 10 year old well mentioned petrol car still has a ton of life left in it.

   It still often ends up a bit cheaper across comparable vehicles but not a slam dunk and nowhere near as good as the headline suggests.

   1. stinos · 1790591513 · focus · HN ↗

      Headline is misleading

      Honest question: how else would one interpret 'cheaper to drive', if not 'cheaper per-mile operating costs'? Wouldn't they have used plain 'cheaper than' if they would have meant 'purchase+operating'?

      1. cmiles8 · 1790591833 · focus · HN ↗

         Because driving includes a lot more costs than just fuel. And as others are calling out, nobody wants a used EV so deprecation is a real cost to every day regardless of if the car is driven or not.

         1. neilalexander · 1790592367 · focus · HN ↗

            I think "nobody wants a used EV" will change, there is already a growing amount of evidence that battery deterioration is nowhere near as bad as feared on average. ICE vehicles also tend to get less efficient over time as well due to wear and tear, build-up, degrading sensors etc, it's just that nobody talks about that.

            1. prmoustache · 1790600897 · focus · HN ↗

               It will really depends on charging infrastructure as well.

               There is a large intersection of people who only buy second hand cars and who have to park them in the streets or in shared parkings. If you can't charge at home, owning an EV is much more a hassle, especially if there are very few chargers around (which is the case in my area) and charging at dedicated third party charging station in much less interesting from a financial point of view.

               1. TeMPOraL · 1790603303 · focus · HN ↗

                  Business idea to solve all the battery complaints:

                  Make cars work off power tools batteries.

                  Take e.g. Bosch AMP Share 18V 8.8 Ah bricks[0] or equivalents. Back-of-the-napkin, you'd need about one per 1km of range (+/- various factors). Put them in racks of 5, and allow people to swap out dead racks for charged ones at gas stations[1].

                  This would give regular people back their favorite experience of gas stations, while preserving environmental and economical benefits. For example:

                  - People riding short routes could run with only 20%-40% of the racks in. Means they won't need to carry as much mass around. This is like people today who always keep their gas tank half empty or even emptier, to not waste fuel on carrying fuel around.

                  - People riding long routes could take extra racks in their trunk to exchange range; people operating other equipment could get extra racks for it at the station, too -- same as people today do when coming with gas canisters to the station.

                  - In case you run out of power in the middle of the road, for some reason, someone else can help you by lending you their battery pack - even easier than lending you gasoline.

                  - No more worry about battery life degradation - you're constantly swapping out packs, never using the same ones for more than few days or weeks, and it's an activity you are doing regularly - so people would finally realize that batteries are replaceable and stop complaining about used EVs being as good as used iPhones.

                  - Overall preserves established economics of gas stations and attached restaurants and service centers; every driver born in the last 100 years understands that and will find it intuitive.

                  - Bonus - the "power tool batteries" was more of a joke establishing scale; actual implementation would be probably sealed "rack-sized" packs with different trade-offs, but on the off chance it is made power-tool compatible, so much extra utility opens - from charging at home, to powering power tools :).

                  (I think the mistake of the OG idea of swappable battery packs of yore was to optimize for swapping time and keep battery as a unit. Breaking it down into pieces that weigh 5kg or less means you can reuse existing infrastructure.)

                  --

                  [0] - Not an ad, I just have bunch of those and invent more and more silly ways to power things from them.

                  [1] - The new "battery passport" regulations around the world already solve some of the technical issues here.

                  1. kyleee · 1790603945 · focus · HN ↗

                     That would be a thief magnet in the UK

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.