Thread

On caring for user data: NeoVim caused Vim undo files to be deleted

384 points · 346 comments · jandeboevrie

natbennett · 1790522271 · focus · HN ↗
I was also a very early user of Neovim.
The way I personally remember it being positioned was “Vim, but with breaking changes.”
1. tmp_throwaway_q · 1790524415 · focus · HN ↗
  Yeah, this hasn't been a problem since forever (or at least I haven't noticed). They had to break the undo file format a while ago to actually work correctly for byte-level buffer change events (very important for tree sitter and other plugins listening for buffer changes). The undo file format is versioned, too, so it's not just YOLO'd; Neovim has since forever returned an error saying there's a version incompatibility. The outrage here doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
  The original author of this post (on Mastodon) appears to have a bone to pick with Neovim since it's "platforming white supremacists"? I couldn't figure out what this meant. Some sort of internet drama I guess.
  1. mikestew · 1790524662 · focus · HN ↗
    The “drama” was linked in TFA:
    <a href="https://github.com/neovim/neovim.github.io/issues/501" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/neovim/neovim.github.io/issues/501
    tmp_throwaway_q · 1790525320 · focus · HN ↗
    Gotta be honest, this seems like making a mountain out of a molehill. Yeah, DHH is an awful person. His endorsement was removed from the page pretty quickly, but of course not fast enough to avoid the social media mob handing down their verdict upon the thankless maintainers. I sympathize with the Neovim developer in that thread, the driveby Github commenters with seemingly no other involvement in the project are some of the least well-socialized people alive.
    soraminazuki · 1790543741 · focus · HN ↗
    In this case, all evidence points to the lead maintainer sympathizing with DHH's views. If his immediate hostility towards someone politely suggesting the removal of DHH's endorsement didn't make his stance clear enough, here's an archive of his previously public YouTube playlist titled "history," full of talks from far right ideologues like Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin.
    <a href="https://archive.is/3cNBr" rel="nofollow">https://archive.is/3cNBr
    The relatively small core team has a member giving talks about Neovim at DHH's conference and another one prominently displaying Palantir as their employer in their GitHub profile.
    It's clear where their sympathies lie, and that GitHub issue wasn't a one-off coming from a stressful online interaction.
    tmp_throwaway_q · 1790549460 · focus · HN ↗
    I'm not gonna gather 'evidence' for or against what some guy who happens to maintain a text editor I use thinks about the issues of the day. It's just creepy behavior, and a huge violation of personal boundaries. Why do you think this is an acceptable thing to do? Go outside.
    Regardless, the material you've posted doesn't indicate much about him to me beyond that we have political differences, which is okay. That's literally fine. It's definitely not enough to condemn someone as a Nazi sympathizer.
    soraminazuki · 1790554053 · focus · HN ↗
    Before telling someone to "go outside," it's a good idea to make sure that you haven't written an entire paragraph filled with personal attacks using fresh throwaway accounts.
    The things I listed are very public, each of which has raised very public concern. I didn't have to "collect" anything because the Neovim team already had a reputation for such things.
    You may think the issues being raised are just "political differences." Enough people clearly see it differently. For many, the things DHH, Yarvin, and Thiel stand for crosses many lines. White supremacy, mass surveillance, or the destruction of democratic institutions aren't "fine." There's nothing more "creepier" than the ethnic targeting of people that Palantir enables.
    tmp_throwaway_q · 1790562572 · focus · HN ↗
    Sorry, no, stalking people online is downright off-putting to anyone from the real world. Having non-political endorsements from people you (and, if you believe it, I) deeply dislike doesn't warrant this kind of treatment. You've simply worked yourself into a froth to justify doing it to someone you really don't know. What right have you to be 'concerned' about the Youtube videos someone watches in their private life? This is normal only to the social-media-mob-socialized.
    This sort of runaway justification is a very common pattern from the self-righteous, across the political spectrum. It's why I need to use a throwaway to talk about these issues, even with people I ultimately agree with. Consider carefully how few hearts you've changed with this strategy.
    So, yeah, I reiterate: go outside! Smell the roses! I'll follow my own advice, at this point.
    soraminazuki · 1790577374 · focus · HN ↗
    What's off-putting is publishing a white suprematist course compilation on social media. Calling backlash against that "stalking" is utterly bizarre and detached from any actual meaning of the word.

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