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Show HN: Reladraw – A diagram language where you decide where to place things

413 points · 119 comments · jpwalsh234

v9v · 1790450199 · focus · HN ↗
Great! Reminds me of Pikchr a bit <a href="https://pikchr.org/home/doc/trunk/homepage.md" rel="nofollow">https://pikchr.org/home/doc/trunk/homepage.md
1. jpwalsh234 · 1790451432 · focus · HN ↗
  Thanks! The big difference is that Pikchr uses "turtle" graphics (where a cursor walks along and draws shapes). Reladraw lets you state relationships and relative positions.
  So, if you have a container with children, or multiple nodes off to the right of another, with links between them, adding or resizing one adjusts the rest, without re-specifying positions the way turtle graphics would require.
  1. gandreani · 1790532110 · focus · HN ↗
    Can you share an example?
    I've been playing with pikchr quite a bit and it has containers and you can specify links relative to the container. I can picture (pun not intended) your counter-example
    jpwalsh234 · 1790535128 · focus · HN ↗
    Great question, I had to noodle that one over a bit, but I think it helped me clarify that difference between pikchr and reladraw. My container example was a poor one, and you are right that pikchr can handle adding elements to a container without fiddling.
    My main objection to pikchr is that it is turtle graphics plus coordinate offsets, which to me feels like the wrong tool when I want to say "I have A to the left, and B, C, and D all right of A". I don't want to have to translate that to turtle graphic movements like saying "there's a group, draw B, move down some amount, place C, move down again, place D".
    Similarly, if I'm thinking at the level of abstraction of nodes and edges and relative positions, it feels awkward to say something like this in pikchr (where the 0.2 is a guess to fiddle with):
    arrow from Web.s down 0.2 then right until even with DB.s then to DB.s
    Rather than saying in reladraw:
    edge web -> db from: bottom to: bottom
    I think it's less a matter of "reladraw can do it, but pikchr cannot". It's more like, "both can get to the same destination, but how you get there is a matter of taste and how you express your intent".
    For example in pikchr:
    A: box "A" fit G: [ down B: box "B" fit move 0.1 C: box "C" fit move 0.1 D: box "D" fit move 0.1 E: box "E" fit ] with .w at A.e+(0.5,0) arrow from A to G.B chop arrow from A to G.C chop arrow from A to G.D chop arrow from A to G.E chop
    To me, it's not as clear that your intent is that you want several nodes right of A. However, in reladraw, it's clearer to me that the intent is "these things are right of A":
    node a "A" node b "B" right of a node c "C" right of a node d "D" right of a node e "E" right of a edge a -> b edge a -> c edge a -> d edge a -> e
    However, that's a subjective taste thing and I could see some people liking the pikchr approach.
    gandreani · 1790538219 · focus · HN ↗
    This is a great example! Thank you
    I think you're right that it's a matter of taste and that the intent is better represented by reladraw.
    If I can point some personal downsides of pikchr is that there's no loops and when using macros you can't use parameters to create object labels.
    For example, Triangle$1: line...
    Just some thoughts in case you're looking for future inspiration for the language
    jpwalsh234 · 1790539653 · focus · HN ↗
    Oh interesting! I plan to add custom attributes, functions, variables. I was also thinking about macros and will add your parameters for object labels in as another idea. Thanks :)

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