Where I live in the US there is a movement to A) Prohibit phones from being used in schools B) use textbooks again instead of digital texts C) use handwriting and notebooks instead of Chromebooks for in-class note taking.
While this might help, and I agree with all these steps, I'm concerned that the root of the problem is simply that the online experience has rewired our kids. Not screens per se, but the feeling of a constantly moving social space which demands their attention.
The kids? I mean sure, they too - but seriously... It's not just the kids that have been affected.
Things have been spiralling out of control ever since social media was introduced.
Ever more extreme positions are being agreed as the norm, and what had previously been the norm is being decried as evil itself.
I'm an atheist myself but I cannot help but think that a lot of our western issues is because we generally no longer see the world from the lens of religion.
Evil has lost its meaning, and people started randomly selecting other behaviors as "evil", and excusing actual evil deeds like rape, murder etc because "reasons".
This has opened up social media to become a echo chamber of ever increasing insanity.
I'm not seeing things get better through initiatives like that. I suspect things are gonna keep spiralling more and more out of control until we end up in a dystopia in which the populus looses a lot of their rights. And not in the too far future either, I'm almost certain I'll witness it before I grow old.
I'm not that doomer about what you are referring to. I think a lot of kids are wising up to the echo chamber.
Nah to me it's more about a loss of connection with the physical world, les slowing down, less being bored. Without that, it's a different reality and I think studying requires that kind of brain. Otherwise you're just flitting this way and that and never really focusing.
> I'm an atheist myself but I cannot help but think that a lot of our western issues is because we generally no longer see the world from the lens of religion.
Yeah it's a fun situation to be in I'm also an atheist but while not perfect the Judeo-Christian moral and legal framework is pretty damn good compared to everything else we've created.
I’m not sure it’s social media so much as the smartphones. It’s been surprising to me watching my parents become slightly senile in a way that seems related to phones – much less ability to cope when the phones aren’t quite working and a lack of the habits I see in my own generation (eg one should obviously try to avoid having a phone out at the dinner table).
I don’t think I agree with your take around religion or ‘evil’. (Imo two big advantages of religion we are currently or will soon be wanting for society are firstly the social/community component and secondly the idea that one can lead a worthy and fulfilling life through acting virtuously and faithfully, rather than through the worth implied by educational or career achievements, which are often a rough proxy for certain kinds of intelligence, that are neither evenly distributed across the population nor easily changed, and which may become unimportant as machines outcompete us there)
I think if social media required logging into a desktop computer or laptop then it would be a lot less impactful. So I think I still disagree. I think smartphones can be bad even if they are limited to largely non-social media like YouTube or TikTok.
> Things have been spiralling out of control ever since social media was introduced.
Where do you observe things "spiralling out of control"? It isn't everywhere, but it is certainly true of at least one country.
> I'm an atheist myself but I cannot help but think that a lot of our western issues is because we generally no longer see the world from the lens of religion.
The lense that has replaced religion is callous for-profit exploitation.
> the populus looses a lot of their rights
People will certainly lose the rights that they do not exercise.
> Where do you observe things "spiralling out of control"? It isn't everywhere, but it is certainly true of at least one country.
We've recently gone through a very public trial about a women murdering kids and countless people showing support for the confirmed murderer. Claiming she's innocent. When the murderer itself admits the killing.
The whole influencer industry is - from the perspective of religion - as sinful as you can get and gets more insane with every year. Remember: narcism, vanity, showing off, envy, gloating -> that's 90% or the viral content and it's all based on behavior Christianity considered Sin until the modernity happened.
The other day a gangster publicly murdered another person and hundreds of thousands were raised in response for support
The fact that for almost 10 years variations of onlyfans, patreon before that have been some of the most profitable enterprises. And the way the "models" foster the para social behavior for money extraction
That there are people unironically thinking January 6th riots in the US were patriotic and not hooligans living out their power fantasies. Also patriotism is pretty close to a sin itself, as it gets very close to pride. It most definitely applies to the MAGA people.
greed is one of the primal Sins. If our societies were still deeply religious, we wouldn't even have anything close to the fallout from the unrestricted market exploitation we have today. It would still happen occasionally, but a lot less because currently people don't even consider greed "bad". It's considered the default and obvious MO
I could go on forever, but I think my point is clear and more would not convey this in any better way. One closing remark makes sense however: modern Christianity is a complete bastardization of it's origin. Pastors are humans too, and they're ultimately also grown from our society. And a sinful society mostly produces sinful people. The issue I see is that the idea of Sin has left our mind. In my teenage years I constantly argued that we don't need that, we can be moral without religion. I just think society has proven myself false, as our collective insanity has shown
bentt · · focus · HN ↗
While this might help, and I agree with all these steps, I'm concerned that the root of the problem is simply that the online experience has rewired our kids. Not screens per se, but the feeling of a constantly moving social space which demands their attention.
ffsm8 · · focus · HN ↗
The kids? I mean sure, they too - but seriously... It's not just the kids that have been affected.
Things have been spiralling out of control ever since social media was introduced.
Ever more extreme positions are being agreed as the norm, and what had previously been the norm is being decried as evil itself.
I'm an atheist myself but I cannot help but think that a lot of our western issues is because we generally no longer see the world from the lens of religion.
Evil has lost its meaning, and people started randomly selecting other behaviors as "evil", and excusing actual evil deeds like rape, murder etc because "reasons".
This has opened up social media to become a echo chamber of ever increasing insanity.
I'm not seeing things get better through initiatives like that. I suspect things are gonna keep spiralling more and more out of control until we end up in a dystopia in which the populus looses a lot of their rights. And not in the too far future either, I'm almost certain I'll witness it before I grow old.
bentt · · focus · HN ↗
Nah to me it's more about a loss of connection with the physical world, les slowing down, less being bored. Without that, it's a different reality and I think studying requires that kind of brain. Otherwise you're just flitting this way and that and never really focusing.
tick_tock_tick · · focus · HN ↗
Yeah it's a fun situation to be in I'm also an atheist but while not perfect the Judeo-Christian moral and legal framework is pretty damn good compared to everything else we've created.
dan-robertson · · focus · HN ↗
I don’t think I agree with your take around religion or ‘evil’. (Imo two big advantages of religion we are currently or will soon be wanting for society are firstly the social/community component and secondly the idea that one can lead a worthy and fulfilling life through acting virtuously and faithfully, rather than through the worth implied by educational or career achievements, which are often a rough proxy for certain kinds of intelligence, that are neither evenly distributed across the population nor easily changed, and which may become unimportant as machines outcompete us there)
ffsm8 · · focus · HN ↗
It's probably the combination of both. The smartphone itself is innocuous, but increases the availability of the social media.
However if social media wasn't as ubiquitous it'd likely be less of an issue then it is today.
However, if social media wasn't a thing people just wouldn't constantly pull out their phones, hence id blame it instead of the form factor.
dan-robertson · · focus · HN ↗
ffsm8 · · focus · HN ↗
They're actually prime examples of the toxicity it spreads.
heresie-dabord · · focus · HN ↗
Where do you observe things "spiralling out of control"? It isn't everywhere, but it is certainly true of at least one country.
> I'm an atheist myself but I cannot help but think that a lot of our western issues is because we generally no longer see the world from the lens of religion.
The lense that has replaced religion is callous for-profit exploitation.
> the populus looses a lot of their rights
People will certainly lose the rights that they do not exercise.
ffsm8 · · focus · HN ↗
We've recently gone through a very public trial about a women murdering kids and countless people showing support for the confirmed murderer. Claiming she's innocent. When the murderer itself admits the killing.
The whole influencer industry is - from the perspective of religion - as sinful as you can get and gets more insane with every year. Remember: narcism, vanity, showing off, envy, gloating -> that's 90% or the viral content and it's all based on behavior Christianity considered Sin until the modernity happened.
The other day a gangster publicly murdered another person and hundreds of thousands were raised in response for support
The fact that for almost 10 years variations of onlyfans, patreon before that have been some of the most profitable enterprises. And the way the "models" foster the para social behavior for money extraction
That there are people unironically thinking January 6th riots in the US were patriotic and not hooligans living out their power fantasies. Also patriotism is pretty close to a sin itself, as it gets very close to pride. It most definitely applies to the MAGA people.
greed is one of the primal Sins. If our societies were still deeply religious, we wouldn't even have anything close to the fallout from the unrestricted market exploitation we have today. It would still happen occasionally, but a lot less because currently people don't even consider greed "bad". It's considered the default and obvious MO
I could go on forever, but I think my point is clear and more would not convey this in any better way. One closing remark makes sense however: modern Christianity is a complete bastardization of it's origin. Pastors are humans too, and they're ultimately also grown from our society. And a sinful society mostly produces sinful people. The issue I see is that the idea of Sin has left our mind. In my teenage years I constantly argued that we don't need that, we can be moral without religion. I just think society has proven myself false, as our collective insanity has shown