> Before approving construction, I would want communities of humans to understand why the design works and what justifies confidence in its safety. I would hope that we all would.
Until very recently, I pored over every single line of code Claude generated with razor sharp scrutiny. I would usually catch issues with every response. I'm catching fewer problems these days. Maybe the model is just getting better, and maybe I'm being less careful while under pressure to ship more and more often. But model capability is obviously growing. Even back in March, you could tell it "give me a function that adds two numbers" and you could be 100% confident that it would write the correct function. There was almost no point in looking at the code. Since then, the complexity floor of problems in the category "this is so simple that the model couldn't possibly get it wrong" is rising, and with it, my cognitive surrender to the model is increasing too. Why check it? It's obviously going to be correct.
If AI designs a terawatt fusion plant, then of course we're going to meticulously pore over every detail to ensure safety, reliability, efficiency, whatever. If we find no flaws in the design whatsoever, will we be less careful about the second one? The third one? What about the ten thousandth one? Will "a nuclear fusion plant" become something that models couldn't possibly get wrong?
Terence Tao is arguing that the human involvement in research is crucial, but doesn't convincingly justify why, in my opinion. He says that "human agency is a value of fundamental importance" and that we will need to build "thriving human communities that can understand [AI ideas] together" - not for the sake of correctness, which AI may surpass us on, but for, I guess, the possibility of reclaiming human meaning and purpose. I don't disagree with this at all, but it's not an argument, it's a statement of values. Unfortunately, the stark reality is that if AI does surpass humans, it will become the economically dominant strategy to not verify them and not double check them, but to just do whatever they say. This seems like a great way to raise p(doom). But as the models get better and better, and as I'm scrutinizing Claude's output less and less... I just hope that there are more Terence Taos out there than people like me.
A metaphor I'm constantly drawn to is the transition from agrarian to urban societies following the Industrial Revolution. Somebody who somehow saw the Industrial Revolution coming from the perspective of somebody living in an agrarian society might have envisioned it leading to 'super farms.' And it did.
But the biggest change wasn't what it did to farming, but enabling people and societies to start doing much more than just farming, as well as enabling some great social change as well by simply economically obsoleting slave labor. And trying to imagine all of the implications of this, as well as much society might look like, from the perspective of somebody living in an agrarian society would probably have been simply impossible.
I think people keep ignoring this possibility for things that LLMs will change. There's a vast amount of the 'cognitive economy' that LLMs stand to be able to automate. And I think that will open up a vacuum in society for people to build on top of what LLMs will do (and already are doing). I don't know what that means exactly, but that's because we still live in that 'agrarian society' and trying to imagine what things will look like after the 'Industrial Revolution' is probably just impossible.
The mistake the AI people are making is exactly this one. They see AI as leading inevitably to SuperCorporations, with themselves as CEOs/Emperors of a handful of planet-scale industrial empires, running AI-powered robot armies, and the rest of the human population disposable - literally just trash that needs to be taken out. One way or another.
Maybe a few thousand people for personal services of... various kinds. But no one's going to need the rest.
It's the ultimate capitalist fantasy.
And of course it won't happen, because long before things get to that stage AI will have independent plans of its own.
(Which is just as well, because if things did get to that stage the emperors would all wage war on each other rather than living peacefully and productively.)
I don't think we can imagine a post-ASI culture because - by definition - we're not smart or inventive enough.
It's not just farmers -> superfarms. Although in fact that did happen, but largely as a footnote to developments elsewhere.
It's more to do with the fact that our visions of the future haven't changed for over a century. They've been implemented in unexpected ways, and there have been unexpected social and cultural changes. But you can easily see the outlines of modern technology as far back as the late 19th century.
With ASI, the outcome could easily be something that doesn't look and act like technology at all. It would be some unimaginable New Thing. Literally no one on Earth has any idea what that would be or whether there would be room for trad-humans in it.
pyridines · · focus · HN ↗
Until very recently, I pored over every single line of code Claude generated with razor sharp scrutiny. I would usually catch issues with every response. I'm catching fewer problems these days. Maybe the model is just getting better, and maybe I'm being less careful while under pressure to ship more and more often. But model capability is obviously growing. Even back in March, you could tell it "give me a function that adds two numbers" and you could be 100% confident that it would write the correct function. There was almost no point in looking at the code. Since then, the complexity floor of problems in the category "this is so simple that the model couldn't possibly get it wrong" is rising, and with it, my cognitive surrender to the model is increasing too. Why check it? It's obviously going to be correct.
If AI designs a terawatt fusion plant, then of course we're going to meticulously pore over every detail to ensure safety, reliability, efficiency, whatever. If we find no flaws in the design whatsoever, will we be less careful about the second one? The third one? What about the ten thousandth one? Will "a nuclear fusion plant" become something that models couldn't possibly get wrong?
Terence Tao is arguing that the human involvement in research is crucial, but doesn't convincingly justify why, in my opinion. He says that "human agency is a value of fundamental importance" and that we will need to build "thriving human communities that can understand [AI ideas] together" - not for the sake of correctness, which AI may surpass us on, but for, I guess, the possibility of reclaiming human meaning and purpose. I don't disagree with this at all, but it's not an argument, it's a statement of values. Unfortunately, the stark reality is that if AI does surpass humans, it will become the economically dominant strategy to not verify them and not double check them, but to just do whatever they say. This seems like a great way to raise p(doom). But as the models get better and better, and as I'm scrutinizing Claude's output less and less... I just hope that there are more Terence Taos out there than people like me.
somenameforme · · focus · HN ↗
But the biggest change wasn't what it did to farming, but enabling people and societies to start doing much more than just farming, as well as enabling some great social change as well by simply economically obsoleting slave labor. And trying to imagine all of the implications of this, as well as much society might look like, from the perspective of somebody living in an agrarian society would probably have been simply impossible.
I think people keep ignoring this possibility for things that LLMs will change. There's a vast amount of the 'cognitive economy' that LLMs stand to be able to automate. And I think that will open up a vacuum in society for people to build on top of what LLMs will do (and already are doing). I don't know what that means exactly, but that's because we still live in that 'agrarian society' and trying to imagine what things will look like after the 'Industrial Revolution' is probably just impossible.
TheOtherHobbes · · focus · HN ↗
Maybe a few thousand people for personal services of... various kinds. But no one's going to need the rest.
It's the ultimate capitalist fantasy.
And of course it won't happen, because long before things get to that stage AI will have independent plans of its own.
(Which is just as well, because if things did get to that stage the emperors would all wage war on each other rather than living peacefully and productively.)
I don't think we can imagine a post-ASI culture because - by definition - we're not smart or inventive enough.
It's not just farmers -> superfarms. Although in fact that did happen, but largely as a footnote to developments elsewhere.
It's more to do with the fact that our visions of the future haven't changed for over a century. They've been implemented in unexpected ways, and there have been unexpected social and cultural changes. But you can easily see the outlines of modern technology as far back as the late 19th century.
With ASI, the outcome could easily be something that doesn't look and act like technology at all. It would be some unimaginable New Thing. Literally no one on Earth has any idea what that would be or whether there would be room for trad-humans in it.