Thread

1. CamperBob2 · 1790363982 · focus · HN ↗

   Even Russia would be better off today if we'd given Ukraine the tools to beat them back a couple of years ago.

   1. petcat · 1790365076 · focus · HN ↗

      Europe has hard decisions to make about what an end to the war in Ukraine will look like, and whether that means ceding territory. Ukraine is never going to recapture the territory that it has lost without European troops on the ground. Macron famously said that he would "have to send guys to Odesa" and yet 3 years later there are still no French troops in Ukraine and Russia has since captured even more territory and is actively bombarding Kyiv. Europe simply cannot keep carving out $100 billion military aid packages every year indefinitely.

      Tough decisions have to be made and, despite public criticism and posture, every EU leader is secretly hoping USA can broker a peace deal and this all just kind of goes away.

      1. throw930393930e · 1790366331 · focus · HN ↗

         > Europe has hard decisions to make about what an end to the war in Ukraine will look like, and whether that means ceding territory.

         Why would Europe decide anything? Ukraine is a sovereign country, nobody should be making decisions on its behalf!

         Especially not about war and its teritory!

         Edit: EU countries should give Ukraine part of their territories, to compensate for land stolen by Russia! This way Ukraine becomes part of NATO and EU, everybody wins!

         1. vintermann · 1790366816 · focus · HN ↗

            You don't decide an outcome, you decide what you will do. Assuming Russia doesn't suddenly change goals, there is very little France can decide to do which could plausibly lead to the outcome "peace in a united Ukraine".

            And nothing Ukraine can decide to do on its own.

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