Thread

1. HPsquared · 1790346004 · focus · HN ↗

   Semiconductor fabs involve a lot of hazardous chemicals, process changes and high energy consumption. Exactly the kind of thing European regulations tend to deter or slow down. Which is somewhat fine if there is nowhere else to build it, but if other places are easier, well...

   1. piltdownman · 1790346576 · focus · HN ↗

      I mean Ireland has some of the most strenuous regulations in this regard, with dozens of data centres blocked over planning and environmental impact assessments. Despite this Intel still put €30 billion in turning a 360-acre former stud farm in Kildare into a semiconductor wafer fabrication facility, powered entirely by green energy, and acting a key location for production of Intel’s 14nm process technology. They currently pull 1,677,197 MWh/year from our grid.

      More to the point, from 2019 they built €17 billion new fab development which doubled the manufacturing capacity available in Ireland and enabled the production of Intel 4, the company’s most advanced process technology.

      1. mikeyouse · 1790347250 · focus · HN ↗

         For better or worse, Ireland’s extremely lax tax rules resulted in a ton of multinational corporate cash ‘stuck’ there with companies having the option of spending there roughly tax free or repatriating back to the US at some rate higher than that. It also really helps sell the ‘of course an Irish subsidiary owns all of our IP’ tax claims if there is actual spending there, hence you got all the pharma investment and the capital projects from others like Intel and Apple.

         1. piltdownman · 1790348483 · focus · HN ↗

            Rather the US lax rules regarding their own enforcement.

            The Double Irish (& Dutch Sandwich) where Companies routed profits through two Irish-registered subsidiaries, attributing intellectual property royalties to a management seat in a tax haven like Bermuda, is closed since 2015.

            Subsequent sequential mismatch structures (the "Single Malt" tool) that replaced the Double Irish for certain firms using non-EU residency loops were also banned. Finally there's a 12.5% charge on unrealized capital gains when a company moves its assets or tax residency out of Ireland.

            The headline tax rate and the effective tax rate are also very different things. France's effective corporate tax rate was actually lower than Irelands - but France is an absolutely brutal place to do business in for employers and they've comparatively no english-language tech FDI to speak of.

            1. maxlamb · 1790479973 · focus · HN ↗

               France corporate taxes are not that bad, but the corporate paid social charges are massive (40-45% of employees gross salary)

               1. bdangubic · 1790480435 · focus · HN ↗

                  I pay similar in the USA and get literally nothing in “social” or otherwise return. I’d trade with french anytime

                  1. gib444 · 1790487158 · focus · HN ↗

                     Just to be clear, the employer first pays ~40-45% of the original salary, then the employee pays ~32-38% of the original salary.

                     i.e. a 100,000 EUR annual salary, the employer pays ~40,000 EUR to the government, then the employee gets their wage slips with additional deductions of ~38,000 EUR.

                     = total of ~78,000 EUR tax on a 100,000 EUR salary.

                     I don't think anything like that level of taxation exists in the US?

                     1. jandrewrogers · 1790526059 · focus · HN ↗

                        The tax loading in the US on the equivalent of a 100,000 EUR salary is much lower than this.

                        At 100,000 USD (a bit lower than EUR) the combined tax load on income for both employee and employer is typically ~30-35% depending on locale. In the US, $100k is pretty close to the median household income.

                        If you have extremely high incomes (e.g. 1,000,000+ USD) the gap closes a bit but even in the highest tax locales the marginal tax loading maxes out at ~60% of top-line income.

                        US Federal tax rates are some of the most progressive in the world. Only ~20% of households are net taxpayers after transfer payments and subsidies. Ironically, this is why it is so difficult to significantly increase income tax revenue in the US. It would require the middle-class majority to vote to raise their own taxes.

                  2. ido · 1790487798 · focus · HN ↗

                     I understand your frustration, but it's not literally nothing - just less than it should be. The US still has Medicaid/Medicare, public schools, welfare services, emergency services, etc (even if you don't use them yourself you benefit from a reduction in the number of desparate people around you if they were cut back even further than they already have).

                     If you are completely broke and go/are brought to a hospital in the US with an immediate life threatening medical issue, they will still try to save your life.

                     1. bdangubic · 1790535685 · focus · HN ↗

                        it is literally almost nothing :)

                        I am too young for M&M, public schools are the worst and I pay ridiculous amount of money for private education. welfare services? depending on where you live (I live in urban area) welfare services would make sure I am just as homeless as if I didn’t get any welfare service…

                        and yes, the ER will take me to save my life but that about as low of a bar as one could come up with.

                  3. lotsofpulp · 1790490911 · focus · HN ↗

                     Which jurisdiction?

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