Thread

1. saddat · 1790105271 · focus · HN ↗

   But luckily Germany saved the world by shutting down their power plants for good

   1. ekjhgkejhgk · 1790105610 · focus · HN ↗

      Tinfoil hat, I know, but I'm convinced that Germany hating nuclear power was a Russian influence operation.

      1. JodieBenitez · 1790106803 · focus · HN ↗

         Maybe... but let's not forget the 1986 event.

         1. whynotmaybe · 1790110012 · focus · HN ↗

            And we mustn't compare it with the ecological impact of using gas in a democracy instead of nuclear under a communist regime
         2. GuestFAUniverse · 1790488382 · focus · HN ↗

            The one where you couldn't safely eat anything from the Bavarian woods for a decade. And that was during years without major droughts. People are fast to forget. Nowadays loosing a harvest to a nuclear plume during a drought would be devastating.

            Also, even the nuclear plants near the coast are often shut down during the summer. E.g. France's Gravelines was running only half it's generators due to jellyfish nearly shutting down the cooling system (at least) the second year in a row.

      2. ExpertAdvisor01 · 1790106815 · focus · HN ↗

         It was already decided in 1998 to phase out nuclear power under the SPD–Green coalition. They passed the Nuclear Exit Law in 2002.

         It’s mostly the Green Party’s fault, as they have been vehemently anti-nuclear since their inception(1970s).

         1. RcouF1uZ4gsC · 1790111296 · focus · HN ↗

            Ok. Soviet influence operation.
         2. brnt · 1790118287 · focus · HN ↗

            Why do you think that in 1998 Russia was not influencing Germany to use its gas?

            Moreover, Russia and its coopting of the German Left and Greens is well documented.

         3. ahartmetz · 1790165038 · focus · HN ↗

            Gerhard Schröder, chancellor 1998-2005, is well known to be best buddies with Putin and later (three weeks after leaving office!) worked for Gazprom. He is nicknamed "Gas-Gerd".

            Schröder also famously called Putin a "true democrat".

         4. DrBazza · 1790504152 · focus · HN ↗

            The road to gigatonnes of CO2 is paved with the good intentions of the Greens in every country.
      3. [deleted] · 1790107009 · focus · HN ↗

         [deleted]

      4. anticodon · 1790496415 · focus · HN ↗

         I always wonder how western population is so brainwashed that you always explain everything using two mutually exclusive ideas:

         1. "Russia is insignificant infinitely small nothing. It's economy is less than economy of Texas!"

         2. "Putin and russians are controlling all the world. They bought every world leader, everyone from Trump to Xi is controlled by them! Anything bad that happens in the world from USA to Africa is directly staged by Russia!"

         1. Marha01 · 1790506135 · focus · HN ↗

            There is nothing contradictory about a country that is a relative shithole having a very effective propaganda machine. Russia puts a lot of their resources into foreign propaganda, and it shows. It is still a shithole when it comes to economy and standard of living.

            IMHO, democratic countries should do the same. I want pro-Western, democratic, liberal propaganda bots to flood the internet, just like the Russian ones do. But I guess liberal governments are just too good to use the same weapons. It could be their downfall.

         2. xienze · 1790511484 · focus · HN ↗

            You have to remember that people on the left side of the political spectrum fancy themselves as the intellectual elite. They've never been wrong about anything, and if in hindsight it appears that way (like shutting down nuclear plants), well, surely that was because of a highly sophisticated brainwashing operation by Russia.
         3. wiseowise · 1790581217 · focus · HN ↗

            You just need to use a little brain, that’s all, no brainwashing needed.

            > "Russia is insignificant infinitely small nothing. It's economy is less than economy of Texas!"

            It is insignificant on a large scale war against united West, short of using nukes. At the same time it doesn’t mean they can’t terrorize Europe for decades or slowly chip it bit by bit.

            Think of it as a delinquent, poor neighbor constantly throwing shit to your back porch, and alternating between threatening you with a knife and a grenade (nuke). Constantly trying to bride, and recruit citizens of your home for its goals.

            > Putin and russians are controlling all the world. They bought every world leader, everyone from Trump to Xi is controlled by them! Anything bad that happens in the world from USA to Africa is directly staged by Russia!

            I don’t think anyone in their right mind thinks that Xi is bought by Russia. On the contrary, it is widely believed that modern Russia is China’s vassal.

      5. xyzsparetimexyz · 1790502941 · focus · HN ↗

         Right, I bet Russians are also why Deutschebahn is a disaster and the beurocracy of the country still runs on fax machines.

         Get real.

      6. falserum · 1790506413 · focus · HN ↗

         It does not need to be 100% Russia operation. Some people did actually want nuclear shutdown (greens), Russia then just needs to help a little (in completely unrelated Mr. Gerhard S. has comfy chair at Rosneft)

         1. uecker · 1790518831 · focus · HN ↗

            Most of the population wanted to get of nuclear power. The greens never had enough control over the government to do it alone.

            1. Lumich · 1790580165 · focus · HN ↗

               [dead]

      7. phatfish · 1790511696 · focus · HN ↗

         They didn't manufacture it (Chernobyl did that), but they certainly help an issue along when it is in their interest.
      8. uecker · 1790520333 · focus · HN ↗

         Considering that nuclear is expensive and in no scenario part of a minimal-cost power system, it was a rational decision. This is also the reason nuclear isn't build anywhere else without government intervention. This should be entirely obvious to anybody looking at the economics. As a physicist, I am not scared of nuclear, but I am also understand numbers... while the nuclear fans here apparently need to resort to conspiracy theories to make sense of the world.

         (Edit: Russian influence is German politics is welle stablished though, but in relation to the right-extremist AFD party)

         1. throwaway473825 · 1790525903 · focus · HN ↗

            The countries with the cheapest electricity in the EU all have nuclear:

            <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.energy-charts.info&#x2F;charts&#x2F;price_average_map&#x2F;chart.htm?l=en&amp;c=EU&amp;interval=year&amp;year=2025" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.energy-charts.info&#x2F;charts&#x2F;price_average_map&#x2F;char...

            Furthermore, old nuclear is already paid for, and hence often the cheapest option where available:

            <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reuters.com&#x2F;graphics&#x2F;EUROPE-ENERGY&#x2F;NUCLEARPOWER&#x2F;gdvzwweqkpw&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reuters.com&#x2F;graphics&#x2F;EUROPE-ENERGY&#x2F;NUCLEARPOWER&#x2F;...

            1. uecker · 1790528532 · focus · HN ↗

               Market price does not necessarily imply cheap to produce, especially in France where EDF was renationalized. And yes, old nuclear is very cheap, but this does not mean it makes sense to build more nuclear.
      9. hax0ron3 · 1790526020 · focus · HN ↗

         ChatGPT could be wrong, but according to it Germany has had an unusually strong anti-nuclear movement since the 1970s.

         German post-WW2 distrust of anything seen as related to war, plus the fact that Germany has large coal reserves and so less need for nuclear than many other countries, are likely to have contributed to the phenomenon.

   2. wewxjfq · 1790491823 · focus · HN ↗

      Yeah, that&#x27;s exactly when all the semiconductor industry left Germany! And why France - the only country that&#x27;s close to fully nuclear - is the industrial power house of the world. Stay shallow, HN.

      1. petcat · 1790500172 · focus · HN ↗

         France the industrial power house of the world? No.

         It does well for itself and Europe but there are several US states that have a larger GDP and industrial output than France does.

         1. IsTom · 1790501667 · focus · HN ↗

            That&#x27;s the point. France has 70%+ nuclear energy in the mix, but isn&#x27;t the economic miracle that nuclear power is supposed to bring.
   3. sajithdilshan · 1790508970 · focus · HN ↗

      Also they are going to save the world by going carbon neutral next decade or so. According to them the world’s carbon emission would be zero as soon as they become carbon neutral and just going back to Germanic tribes days.

      1. [deleted] · 1790516012 · focus · HN ↗

         [deleted]

   4. pfdietz · 1790610204 · focus · HN ↗

      &gt; But luckily Germany saved the world by shutting down their power plants for good

      No, the big contribution was the large renewable subsidies that kicked off the subsequent rapid descent of their costs by experience effects, experience effects that nuclear never had.

      The hard on some people have for nuclear is incomprehensible. It&#x27;s a shit loser technology. Get over it.

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