Thread

1. u8 · 1790344456 · focus · HN ↗

   This is why I love Go. Nobody was asking for this, but they took the time to do it right and continue to Push go as a memory safe, high-level systems language.

   1. __s · 1790344640 · focus · HN ↗

      go data races aren't memory safe

      1. shikck200 · 1790350210 · focus · HN ↗

         That does not make sense to me. Go is memory-safe, but it does not guarantee data-race freedom.

         So whats your point here? Haskell?

         1. simonask · 1790352291 · focus · HN ↗

            There is no memory safety without freedom from data races. One is a prerequisite of the other. This is why languages like C# throw exceptions on unsynchronized concurrent access to some container types, and treat all property accesses as atomic.

            1. shikck200 · 1790353069 · focus · HN ↗

               Are you saying any language that does not promise data-race freedom is memory unsafe? That would rule out almost every programming language.

               1. simonask · 1790353400 · focus · HN ↗

                  I am, but you’d be surprised. All of the single-threaded languages are fine, for example. Very few languages are actually low-level enough to allow data races. C# and Java go to great lengths to avoid it.

                  Race conditions in general are another matter, and aren’t generally considered a requirement (though you can certainly create nasty bugs).

                  1. shikck200 · 1790353814 · focus · HN ↗

                     I have not written a line of Java in 15 years. But im pretty sure Java has threads? Once you have threads, you pretty much have data races.

                             Thread a = new Thread(() -> x++);
                             Thread b = new Thread(() -> x++);
                     
                             a.start();
                             b.start();

                     1. thargor90 · 1790358767 · focus · HN ↗

                        The claim is not there is no data races in Java programs. The claim is that Java programs are memory safe, because the underlying virtual machine memory model is free of data races.

                        Go does not have that.

                        (Of course also Java may suffer from memory safety issues on system boundaries to unsafe code and due to JVM bugs.)

                        1. [deleted] · 1790361052 · focus · HN ↗

                           [deleted]

                     2. simonask · 1790362723 · focus · HN ↗

                        I don’t know Java or the JVM, but if it’s anything like the CLR/.NET, this would either be compiled to atomic operations, or throw an exception.

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