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Dutch governments builds alternative for Microsoft based on NixOS

1021 points · 583 comments · fjfaase

  1. askonomm · · focus · HN ↗
    Any move away from the abusive big tech that exists in USA is a good move in my book. Microsoft just recently made a new patent where they will monitor you via camera and microphone to block your program/game to show you ads, and per ads viewed, you then earn credit to be able to use your program/game. It is absolutely wild to me how a corporation can be so toxic and abusive to its users and still be in business.
    1. wartywhoa23 · · focus · HN ↗
      > It is absolutely wild to me how a corporation can be so toxic and abusive to its users and still be in business.

      There is a couple more wild things here:

      1) That there is an agenda, demand and total legal abetment from the top of the power/monetary hierarchy for such corporate policies

      2) That there is a horde of individual employees working to those ends without any shadow of doubt, often even vice signaling their intent to be the first to attain the figurative A-bomb or full-blown BB telescreen.

      1. atoav · · focus · HN ↗
        A lot of that has to do with the fact that the people who decide to use it fall into two camps:

        1. People who do not have to use it themselves (political decides, bosses, ..), but get lobbied to the max

        2. People who have to administer it and know nothing else and endure the lasting pain over the perceived infinite hurdle of changing the system

        I gladly can use Linux at work, so I have had a stable, reliable and unchanging system since the past 6 years, but others have to go through major pains for each version of enshittification of their OS update. In my case the OS just got better slowly and incrementally.

        1. flaunf221 · · focus · HN ↗

          [dead]

          1. mcv · · focus · HN ↗
            Gave up? There are more Linux games than ever. Most commercial games work fine on Linux now. Some through emulation of some sort, others completely natively, because most gamer engines support Linux natively, making it trivial to do so. And as a gamer, I can't really tell the difference between the two.

            If you mean Linux-only classic open source games, like Angband or Battle for Wesnoth or something, they still exist, but the demand has clearly gone down because now almost all games work on Linux. Except the ones with anti-cheat systems that rootkit-style access to your system.

            1. beloch · · focus · HN ↗
              Steam has been pushing Linux as a gaming OS, and it's working. Mainstream game support has come leaps and bounds over the last several years. It's still not quite as good as Windows. You will run into more bugs and have to fiddle with things a bit more to get them to work. It's improving rapidly though.

              My only concern is that this is mostly just the result of one very influential company. If they turn evil on us...

            2. MentalM · · focus · HN ↗
              > Most commercial games work fine on Linux now.

              What about the performance (especially the bottom 1% frame time)? What about availability of those games in free online game libraries?

              1. mcv · · focus · HN ↗
                In my personal experience, performance is better than I've ever seen on Windows. But less subjective benchmarks exist. Apparently, if you have an AMD GPU, performance is likely to be better on Linux, if you have Nvidia, it's probably better on Windows. I have Nvidia and no complaints.
            3. ThrowawayB7 · · focus · HN ↗
              The parent poster said "Linux gaming community". "Most commercial games work fine on Linux now" because a multi-billion dollar corporation, Valve, is paying to maintain Proton to protect their business model, not the Linux community.
          2. testerius · · focus · HN ↗
            What are you talking about? Lol, Linux gaming is fine and still growing.
          3. c7b · · focus · HN ↗
            You're saying this as if emulation (which Wine isn't really, more of a Win32 API compatibility layer; WINE literally stands for 'WINE Is Not an Emulator') was a bad thing. In reality, a lot of games benchmark better on Linux than on Windows today.
            1. flaunf221 · · focus · HN ↗
              Emulation is not a bad thing - it gives users options. My point is that Microsoft were the only ones who managed to make a stable gaming platform.

              Also "a lot of games benchmark better" - some games. And then some games don't work at all. And some games work with minor or significant issues. Which is not a slight against Wine and Proton as it's not an easy task.

              1. c7b · · focus · HN ↗
                Can't speak to it myself, but I'm not sure how up to date your infos are. I read a lot of reviews and it seems that the vast majority of the Steam catalogue should run fine on Linux today. The most important exceptions are games that require kernel-level anti-cheat (so if you're into multiplayer games that could be a dealbreaker).
          4. OrangeRange · · focus · HN ↗
            Bad take, what actually happened was the realization that games wouldn't be released on Linux unless there were enough users there to warant it. Just as with ARM Windows not getting a single usable software when first released. What happened was Wine/Proton and FEX, with a lot of monetary input from Valve.

            By allowing a lot of people who are willing to take a performance-hit to transition to Linux, they sow the grass-roots necessary for the game studios to release native games on Linux.

            1. flaunf221 · · focus · HN ↗
              > What happened was Wine/Proton and FEX, with a lot of monetary input from Valve.

              So it took decades to understand that things aren't working and then investment from multi-billion company to finally start getting anywhere.

              Meanwhile on Windows you can play today, could play 10 years ago, could 20 years ago. That should answer how it's still in business. It just works.

              1. meekins · · focus · HN ↗
                Although if you want to play the same game you played 20 years ago today, running it on Wine is your best bet to get it running.
                1. flaunf221 · · focus · HN ↗
                  I recently played several games of early to mid 2000 and had no problems. Maybe for really old Win95-era games I'd had to use Wine, but not for anything semi-modern like this.
              2. samudrijan · · focus · HN ↗
                That’s due to xcel and word and corporate IT being built on AD.
          5. atoav · · focus · HN ↗
            Huh? I just finished Fallout 4 on Linux, a game that is famously unstable and it worked totally fine out of the box. Install steam, install Fallout, go.
            1. flaunf221 · · focus · HN ↗
              Not to discard your happiness at things working out for you, but that's a game from 2015 and it's 2026 now. And is also in top 50 of best sellers of all time, so I would expect it to work.
        2. joking · · focus · HN ↗
          I don't know if lobbied is the correct word, or they are directly bought.
          1. atoav · · focus · HN ↗
            Well some are, some are not. Some are simply invited to a nice dinner and given the hint that this might be a contact that gives them access to affluent circles. I have heard it all.
        3. CircuitSeuss · · focus · HN ↗
          I think it might be symptomatic of broader tech illiteracy: People don't know anything else or anything better. They want their software to Just Work, and ultimately the decision is made by an executive who decides that microsoft products are “the most stable” or “easiest” route.
        4. tedggh · · focus · HN ↗
          I have a reliable system running for years on a Surface Pro 2022, so not sure what your experience with Windows was. It does take a few tweaks to remove some of the junk but otherwise it is a solid work environment IMO. The same can be said of Linux, it can be a real PITA finding and configuring drivers for something that should not take more than a few seconds. So both environments can definitely be a shitty experience unless you know what you are doing.
          1. atoav · · focus · HN ↗
            I have been a decade long windows user (and still am), I administer a computer room with MacOS and use Linux. So I know all three pretty well.

            Try reinstalling that surface pro with windows 11 without a Microsoft account. Windows is okay, but every update introduces new bullshit, bloatware, accounts you're forced to use, UI-changes. Linux is reliable in the sense that you can chose when and if you want to change things and there is always a way to do it the way you want to do it (something that is the big weakness of MacOS).

            Additionally KDE Plasma is the best Desktop UI on all operating systems today. Scripting and automation on Linux is killer, ... The only reason for Windows/MacOS is certain software that doesn't performantly run on Linux (or if Linux scares you).

            1. MentalM · · focus · HN ↗
              > Try reinstalling that surface pro with windows 11 without a Microsoft account

              Aren't this take like 3 additional minutes (including search of how to do this)?

              1. pino83 · · focus · HN ↗
                Maybe not everyone is happy with these stupid cat and mouse games.
          2. hamandcheese · · focus · HN ↗
            > The same can be said of Linux, it can be a real PITA finding and configuring drivers for something that should not take more than a few seconds.

            If you value your own dignity you should see that these scenarios are worlds apart. In one case you have a trillion-dollar company actively working against your own interests. On the other hand, you had some trouble finding drivers for a volunteer-driven project, which is a problem that you are actually empowered to fix.

        5. rs999gti · · focus · HN ↗
          You forgot:

          3. People who do not care and are not in IT or on Hacker News.

          I doubt a lot of regular people care what Microsoft is doing. All they want is a laptop or PC that works or to be able to play their XBOX games.

      2. shevy-java · · focus · HN ↗
        That is true. We see that with Trump, where he tries to force the EU to open markets to the US corporations who will just steal data from EU citizens.

        Why can't the EU learn more from Canada? Canada realised that with Trump there is no way to make a deal. So cut things down where possible, diversify - the EU still has to learn this lesson. In particular Germany is totally US-addicted - no idea why, other than, of course, the obvious answer ("we need to export into the USA", aka selfish greed from Germany here).

        1. herbst · · focus · HN ↗
          Can you name examples how the EU or Germany is US addicted? From my POV in central Europe this has changed long long long ago.

          Doing some trading with a shitty country doesn't imply any dependency

          1. eastbound · · focus · HN ↗
            Buying US helicopters when they've been developing one with France. But Germany has no choice: It has been literally occupied by the US forces and it's only recently that it has regained the right to have an army, but there are still 200k US troops in Germany (among other means of influence).
            1. herbst · · focus · HN ↗
              Germany had it's Bundeswehr the whole time since it joined the Nato 1955 same year the US occupation officially ended. And there are not even remotely 200k us Troops in Germany anymore.

              No idea where you get your Infos from, bit a short googling would show that this is simply not true.

        2. agentultra · · focus · HN ↗
          Canada isn’t that great either. We say one thing then do the opposite of that. Google is moving in to do age verification for Canadian services.
        3. leonidasrup · · focus · HN ↗
          Because Germany is critically dependent on LNG imports from US.

          " Gas covered a little more than a quarter of Germany’s primary energy use in 2025, making it the country’s second most important energy source. Germany is among the world’s biggest natural gas importers – around 95 percent of its gas consumption is met by imports, according to energy research data group AGEB. "

          " Energy industry association BDEW said that Norway has now become Germany’s top gas supplier by far, with about 45 percent in 2025, transported by pipeline. Around one tenth of the gas used in the country arrives as liquefied natural gas (LNG) directly at one of four import terminals along the coast. In 2025, around 95 percent of that LNG came from the US. "

          European countries are trading gas between them, we have to look into whole European imports. For example Germany is import lot of US gas through Belgium.

          " Russia has continued to supply a sizeable portion of gas imports, although the EU has decided to fully phase them out by 2027. Most natural gas in a gaseous state was imported from Norway (52%), Algeria (20%), Russia (10%), and the UK (8%) in 2025. LNG came from the US (55%), Russia (14%), Qatar (9%), and Algeria (6%). "

          <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cleanenergywire.org&#x2F;factsheets&#x2F;germany-eu-remain-heavily-dependent-imported-fossil-fuels" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cleanenergywire.org&#x2F;factsheets&#x2F;germany-eu-remain...

      3. deaux · · focus · HN ↗
        3) That half of HN works at these companies and loves to whitewash their conscience by commenting &quot;look at how awful they are&quot; on any company that&#x27;s interpreted as 1% worse. You have MS devs who comment on Amazon who comment on Meta who comment on Palantir comment on Flock comment on NSO Group, as this is roughly the &quot;perceived hierarchy&quot;.

        If you&#x27;re in US big tech you&#x27;re working directly for the regime and fully complicit, end of.

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