Thread

Dutch governments builds alternative for Microsoft based on NixOS

1021 points · 583 comments · fjfaase

hashar · 1790331551 · focus · HN ↗
France government has announced NixOS based systems some months ago:
- <a href="https://github.com/cloud-gouv/securix" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/cloud-gouv/securix a hardened/secured os
- <a href="https://github.com/cloud-gouv/bureautix-example" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/cloud-gouv/bureautix-example an example to use securix to build an office deployment (with some packages <a href="https://github.com/cloud-gouv/bureautix-example/blob/main/common/tools.nix" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/cloud-gouv/bureautix-example/blob/main/co... )
1. pranxxter · 1790333706 · focus · HN ↗
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  1. stef25 · 1790333880 · focus · HN ↗
    > it says a lot about the EU that every government tries to reinvent the same operating system
    Yeah what could possibly go wrong
  2. kthartic · 1790334003 · focus · HN ↗
    Does it? The EU isn't a single country like the US - it's a partnership of 27 separate countries.
    If one country in the UN adopted some new OS, we wouldn't expect every other country (incl the US) to adopt it too.
    pranxxter · 1790335096 · focus · HN ↗
    That's an accurate description of the status quo, but it's also a good example of massive inefficiencies in the EU.
    FWIW, I'm not saying that I would expect the EU to do a better job than the Dutch government. Likely quite the opposite. But it's frustrating as passionate European... that these problems aren't tackled on a union level. You'd think that's their job? The EU will never compete if it stays a loose partnership of 27 countries, and if it can't even get France, Germany, and the Netherlands to work on this together instead of running 3 separate projects...
    tweetle_beetle · 1790340925 · focus · HN ↗
    This is the equivalent of two competing startups getting an advantage over an enterprise, just at government scale. It's a good thing.
    Two competing products emerge, they are battle tested, opinions form, reviews are conducted. At that point it's a much better time for a significantly larger organisation to create a more focused realistic plan based on learnings and outcomes.
    Imagine the analysis paralysis that would set in if the EU tried it from scratch - years of requirements gathering, pilots, reports...
  3. innocent_name · 1790334184 · focus · HN ↗
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    maximilianthe1 · 1790334501 · focus · HN ↗
    Can an OS be toxic?
    queero · 1790335337 · focus · HN ↗
    Not all of us know, could you give me a hint please? Why is NixOS toxic?
    innocent_name · 1790337184 · focus · HN ↗
    Ask your llm, scroll through some meme pages!
    <a href="https://x.com/MemesOfNixOS/status/1942271466894217321" rel="nofollow">https://x.com/MemesOfNixOS/status/1942271466894217321
    easyKL · 1790338707 · focus · HN ↗
    - Could you please justify your opinion? - Sure, here you have a link from Twitter And we all get a meme that is not funny.
    mitxela · 1790339686 · focus · HN ↗
    <a href="https://twiiit.com/MemesOfNixOS/status/1942271466894217321" rel="nofollow">https://twiiit.com/MemesOfNixOS/status/1942271466894217321
2. nxobject · 1790336236 · focus · HN ↗
  I’m glad multiple European agencies are giving this a whack - hopefully we’ll end up with a synthesis of the best aspects.
3. Lucasoato · 1790340685 · focus · HN ↗
  I’m looking with so much admiration what France has been building in this space, especially the latest gendarmerie transition into open source OS from windows.
  The problem though is that there’s always a strong push by French companies and organizations to reject English at any cost, despite the fact that is the most popular language in Europe.
  Yes, I get that this is a way to preserve the French language and they have all the rights to do that (in the end, they’re the ones putting the effort in these initiatives) but imagine how faster these ideas could be shared and diffuse in Europe if French understood this. If all the countries in Europe just keep pushing their nationalist ideology instead of truly believing into a united and solid Europe Union, we won’t go any where.
  1. nonethewiser · 1790341163 · focus · HN ↗
    > Yes, I get that this is a way to preserve the French language and they have all the rights to do that (in the end, they’re the ones putting the effort in these initiatives) but imagine how faster these ideas could be shared and diffuse in Europe if French understood this.
    Isnt this just baked into the idea? The French are building an OS for internal use for their own interests.
    If we then try to extend that or the Dutch OS to other countries we have the original problem of dependence.
  2. achenet · 1790341813 · focus · HN ↗
    Frenchman here. French companies and organization, in my experience actually really like the English language (at OVH for example, most official docs are in English), but I do think it makes sense for a government funded by people who speak mostly French (ie the French taxpayers) to do stuff in French, the language most of its citizens will be most familiar with.
    Putting stuff in English will tend to exclude the less educated, or people who struggle to learn foreign languages.
    EDIT: and actually, from looking at the README of <a href="https://github.com/cloud-gouv/securix" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/cloud-gouv/securix
    > Ce README est en français mais le reste du code, les issuers et les PR sont en anglais.
    The README is in French but the rest of the code, the issues (they wrote issuers, but that is a typo I suspect) and the PRs are in English.
    So. :P
    Lucasoato · 1790342345 · focus · HN ↗
    Italianman here, I totally understand and respect your point. I just wish this was a collectively funded initiative, English-first but open to all translations. I’d be so happy if my country understood this and invested in this as well, so kudos to France for leading the tech here!
    LeBit · 1790344886 · focus · HN ↗
    Je t’assure que ce besoin qu’on certains français de montrer leur capacité de parler l’anglais, de nommer leurs entreprises avec des noms à connotation anglophone, etc. est considéré très gênant ici du Québec.
    ragall · 1790359730 · focus · HN ↗
    Oui, c'est bien connu que vous Québécois préférez la stratégie de l'autruche.
    LeBit · 1790361471 · focus · HN ↗
    Tes interventions montrent que tu es un raciste intolérant. Je n’ai plus de temps à perdre avec toi.
    ragall · 1790361897 · focus · HN ↗
    Quel dommage.
  3. RaitoBezarius · 1790341896 · focus · HN ↗
    Hi (Sécurix developer), we wrote our documentation in English and in French: <a href="https://cloud-gouv.github.io/securix" rel="nofollow">https://cloud-gouv.github.io/securix.
    Maintaining both languages is hard but we will do our best.
    Lucasoato · 1790342176 · focus · HN ↗
    Thanks for the amazing work, let’s keep pushing for independent EU-based technology!
    LeBit · 1790344708 · focus · HN ↗
    J’imagine que c’est de plus en plus facile de le faire avec l’aide de l’IA!
    pxc · 1790355249 · focus · HN ↗
    That's quite a generous decision. Thanks a lot for doing your work in public and in multiple languages.
    Fnoord · 1790385646 · focus · HN ↗
    Thank you for your service! I hope you can cooperate also with other countries, I am specifically thinking of Canada here, given they're dual-language English-French. I'm convinced NixOS is the right way forward.
    evanjrowley · 1790869641 · focus · HN ↗
    Securix is a great step forward in many ways, including for France, the EU, NixOS, and cyber security. Thank you!
  4. bloak · 1790342146 · focus · HN ↗
    > The problem though is that there’s always a strong push by French companies and organizations to reject English at any cost
    Interestingly, a French-speaking Canadian who has spent some time in France told me that his right to use the French language is better protected in Canada than it is in France. He thinks that this is a consequence of the reciprocality implied by having more than one official language: French speakers in Canada get the same rights as English speakers, so people are happy to grant rights in return for getting them, whereas in France everyone gets screwed and you end up with a situation in which a French person wanting to do a PhD on French history at a French university has to write their grant application in English.
    flakes · 1790344198 · focus · HN ↗
    Quebec gets weird with their french rules. Parents are not allowed to send their kids to English speaking schools if both of the parents did their own schooling in French.
    LeBit · 1790344644 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
    throw10920 · 1790348062 · focus · HN ↗
    That's extremely weird. I don't know of another place that does that aside from Quebec, and it's extremely illogical on its own merits.
    LeBit · 1790353279 · focus · HN ↗
    "Extremely illogical". Okay buddy.
    What other place do you know of whose context is the same as Quebec?
    jonasdegendt · 1790357896 · focus · HN ↗
    Belgium, somewhat? :)
    LeBit · 1790361431 · focus · HN ↗
    Not really. They are located in Europe. Share a border with France. Still have a lot of laws to protect French.
    ragall · 1790359390 · focus · HN ↗
    Belgium, Switzerland, Spain, come easily to my mind. Switzerland is a very interesting counter-example because although the French-speaking cantons (Romandie) have French as the "prevalent language", meaning that public services are almost exclusively in French, in practice most people speak German too because they're pragmatic about language: the German kantons are the center of economic activity and not speaking German is a huge disadvantage. Quebec, par contre, is full of people that wistfully (I had intended to write "wishfully" but the auto complete was fantastic this time) think they can manage with speaking only French and ignore the rest of the world.
    LeBit · 1790361197 · focus · HN ↗
    Your comment is dripping with racism.
    Did you know there are tensions in Switzerland because there is a will to stop kids from learning French while they attend primary school? <a href="https://www.edi.admin.ch/fr/newnsb/CbsqmmLpkhDjQgEILMp_P" rel="nofollow">https://www.edi.admin.ch/fr/newnsb/CbsqmmLpkhDjQgEILMp_P
    Did you know Switzerland is located in Europe and shares a border with France? Did you know people in France speak French?
    Do you know where Quebec is located?
    I’ve seen your kind before.
    ragall · 1790361834 · focus · HN ↗
    > Your comment is dripping with racism.
    Your paranoia is typical of Quebec. You need professional help, Mon ami.
    > Did you know there are tensions in Switzerland because there is a will to stop kids from learning French while they attend primary school?
    I lived for a while in Zurich as well, and it was well known that kids are exiting high school being unable to speak the second language they supposedly studied.
    > Do you know where Quebec is located?
    Yeah, I'm in Montreal right now and have been living there for quite a while.
    LeBit · 1790371455 · focus · HN ↗
    > Yeah, I'm in Montreal right now and have been living there for quite a while.
    shocked Pikachu
    ragall · 1790374108 · focus · HN ↗
    No matter what I replied, I suspect it would have confirmed your prejudices.
    evil_buzzard · 1790361808 · focus · HN ↗
    It's people who speak french not being able to make a choice about their children's education, yes it's weird, and no it's not judgemental to wonder why parents can't make a very basic decision in their child's education.
    burntpineapple · 1790344969 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
  5. torginus · 1790350992 · focus · HN ↗
    I guess we could do with more weird third-path stuff with the Linux world, even if the reason for said weird stuff existing is the French having (le) NIH syndrome.
    It's also great when an actual commercial organization with requirements gets into the Linux game, as they don't really yield to 'we could make that printer work but it would be against everything we stand for' style arguments that have cemented problems in Linux userland for decades.
  6. F3nd0 · 1790351263 · focus · HN ↗
    ‘United and solid EU’ doesn’t have to involve forcing everyone to use a someone’s native language. Ideally we’d have a common language that’s neutral and used for international communication only. In fact, we already have a working solution; Esperanto has existed for well over 100 years at this point, and continues to be a healthy, living language. People just don’t seem to care that much. It always seems to be either practicality or national heritage, never both at the same time. Yet the common ground has been there all along.
    graemep · 1790878699 · focus · HN ↗
    We could go back to using Latin as a common language. It is already far more widely understood than Esperanto.
    The problem with invented languages is the same as with adding new standards <a href="https://xkcd.com/927/" rel="nofollow">https://xkcd.com/927/
  7. selfhoster1312 · 1790404826 · focus · HN ↗
    > the latest gendarmerie transition into open source OS from windows
    That was 18 years ago: <a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu" rel="nofollow">https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu
4. ctolsen · 1790341288 · focus · HN ↗
  I particularly enjoy the Asterix-adjacent naming scheme.
5. yubblegum · 1790341540 · focus · HN ↗
  The Dutch have ditched even github. They are thinking ahead.
  <a href="https://code.overheid.nl/MinBZK/DAWO-NixOS" rel="nofollow">https://code.overheid.nl/MinBZK/DAWO-NixOS
6. zipy124 · 1790596319 · focus · HN ↗
  Also noteworthy is that they already have their own version of ubuntu that is widely used: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu

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