Thread

1. a57721 · 1790407197 · focus · HN ↗

   I am teaching some math courses, and I see how LLMs disrupted all standard approaches, and I don't know what to do.

   I rely on written exams that are open book, but forbid any use of computers and smartphones in class.

   The university insists that homework can't be optional, but it lost its meaning. I've tried to explain to my students that it's in their interest to think about home assignments on their own, but the majority will obviously use gen AI, and it's such a waste of time to check and grade LLM output.

   I just had an experience where all students were given "sample problems" to try at home and prepare for the written test. Many of them just dumped the document into an LLM, asked it to produce some "exam guide", and showed up with that thing printed out, asking me during the test to explain what LLM output meant.

   It seems like the university also has many people pushing for AI use for everything, but I teach basic stuff where the goal is to make students think on their own and digest some fundamental ideas, LLMs can produce perfect solutions, but relying on them is pointless.

   1. fhd2 · 1790413181 · focus · HN ↗

      That sounds pretty frustrating. I wonder if it wouldn't be a good approach to, say:

      1. Make the exam the only thing that determines the grade (or technically, proves that the student learned enough);

      2. Give out test assignments students can do, but don't have to;

      3. Offer students for the professor to grade their work if they want to get some feedback on how they're doing.

      Would that lead to less time wasted by tutors grading AI generated answers? From where I stand, students should be allowed to prepare for exams any way they like, with or without their professor's help. If they managed to learn, they pass.

      1. michaelt · 1790415505 · focus · HN ↗

         When I was in engineering school ~20 years ago, some lecturers openly said that they gave the assignments just enough credit to be worth doing. Something like 10-15% of your final grade would be from assignments, the rest from the exam. So we didn't blow off the assignments to go drinking.

         Of course, this a lot easier for some subjects than others. Subjects like Film Studies relied on exams much less, and assignments much more.

      2. psyklic · 1790425687 · focus · HN ↗

         According to the article, #1 leads to "failure and drop-out rates of 50 to 80%". #2 and #3 might work for organized and motivated students, but graded assignments from other classes will be prioritized by most.

         1. hahn-kev · 1790477734 · focus · HN ↗

            Maybe more drop outs is a good thing, we need more skilled labor anyway

            1. isityettime · 1790490131 · focus · HN ↗

               In many cases it probably is. But lower graduation rates cuts against the incentives structures in place at many universities and colleges.
            2. gosub100 · 1790497409 · focus · HN ↗

               Then their parents come in and complain about where the $30k that semester went. This is a consequence of the exponential rise in tuition. You're now in lawsuit territory if you don't deliver the goods.
         2. procaryote · 1790509683 · focus · HN ↗

            Failing people who didn't learn anything during the course sounds like a desirable outcome

            1. Der_Einzige · 1790521389 · focus · HN ↗

               Given the education literally does not matter anymore for white collar work, I'm inclined to agree with you.

               I'd rather a MUCH larger amount of professors and teachers come to class to find their classes deserted (by their own hand), and indeed, their own justification for existing gone. The world would be a lot better off. Gatekeepers are anti-human.

               1. procaryote · 1790522278 · focus · HN ↗

                  If education doesn't matter, you've had the wrong education.
      3. professorthread · 1790442728 · focus · HN ↗

         1. is not a terrible idea, if structured correctly, but it doesn't adequately incentive the learning process, which requires continuous practice. For 1, I'd say put 80% of the grade in three to four exams taken over the semester, and allow one midterm exam grade to be dropped or replaced by the final exam grade. The remaining 20% of the grade is to incentivize practicing problems: homework graded based on completeness not correctness, short in-class quizzes randomly sampling a homework problem to incentivize students to legitimately complete the homework that are graded for correctness, and student participation in classtime activities.
      4. dghlsakjg · 1790464086 · focus · HN ↗

         Give a short quiz at the start of the class with one or two problems directly from the homework.
      5. isityettime · 1790490297 · focus · HN ↗

         I took some classes like this and they were great. I felt they were much fairer than classes where mere diligence/compliance could masquerade as competency by way of final grades padded by homework scores.

         They were disliked by many other students, though, and some people really think university grades should be about things like diligence, compliance, time management, etc., rather than pure subject mastery.

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