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Creatine uptake enhances antitumor immunity

185 points · 227 comments · lormayna

  1. ThouYS · · focus · HN ↗
    The whole creatine craze reminds me of Vitamin D a couple of years ago. Which also sounded harmless, but can go very wrong if not careful
    1. BugsJustFindMe · · focus · HN ↗
      > but can go very wrong if not careful

      This is vague and doesn't explain anything. Can you share any references that communicate what you're thinking about?

      1. nkozyra · · focus · HN ↗
        They're talking about vitamin D, which accumulates due to being fat soluble and is indeed toxic at a certain level[1]

        It became something of a panacea nutrient, recently around COVID.

        1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Vitamin_D_toxicity" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Vitamin_D_toxicity

        1. nomel · · focus · HN ↗
          And, if you drink a glass of carrot juice a day, you&#x27;ll receive toxic levels of vitamin A!

          ~40% of people don&#x27;t get enough vitamin D [1]. It&#x27;s not useful to categorize it as some trend, based on people just not following general recommended dosing (with more precise dosing depending entirely on personal sun exposure and skin color).

          edit: As an office worker, I take 10k IU per day when I&#x27;m entirely indoors (most of the time), but vary it based on sun exposure. I based this on recent studies, and have my doctors approval with an exactly center-of-the-nominal-range vitamin D serum level.

          [1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC9573946&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC9573946&#x2F;

          1. xnickb · · focus · HN ↗
            &gt; severe VDD was defined as serum 25(OH)D levels of &lt;25 nmol&#x2F;L, moderate deficiency as 25–50 nmol&#x2F;L, insufficiency as 50–75 nmol&#x2F;L, and sufficiency as &gt;75 nmol&#x2F;L.

            These numbers seem high to me. The 75 nmol&#x2F;L (30ng&#x2F;L) is not really a reliable value. It was published in a research that raises many questions due to conflict of interests.

            Hence the

            &gt; ~40% of people don&#x27;t get enough vitamin D

            becomes:

            &gt; ~40% of people in the USA don&#x27;t get enough vitamin D according to Dr. Holick

            Where I live the norm is 20 ng&#x2F;L and if we apply that, then the shocking 40% becomes more reasonable 10-15%

            1. nomel · · focus · HN ↗
              &gt; Where I live the norm is 20 ng&#x2F;L

              How did they come to this?

              Seems like a reasonable measure would be to look at a native person, from ones lineage, having a relatively average pre-industrial day.

              If lineage doesn&#x27;t matter, and all humans are the same, you could probably just go sample some tribe members that still lives mostly outdoors, outside of developed society.

              And, regardless, I&#x27;ll listen to my doctor.

              1. xnickb · · focus · HN ↗
                you&#x27;re asking the question the wrong way around. How did Dr. Holick come up with 30ng&#x2F;L and what were his incentives?

                Clearly he made a lot of money publishing that research. And people who paid him also made billions. But let&#x27;s focus on the rest of the world that didn&#x27;t increase the norm that works by 50%

                I don&#x27;t want to go into this debate. The cited benefits of Vitamin D have to do with Calcium and bones. This is just absurd to me. Do people in Europe have brittle bones? Those 40% with alleged Vitamin D deficiency have issues with Calcium and get bone fractures every other day?

                There is no substance to discuss here, sorry.

                1. nomel · · focus · HN ↗
                  &gt; Do people in Europe have brittle bones?

                  And, now you&#x27;ve discovered why Europeans have light skin [1]! And, why supplementation is suggested for those with dark skin [2] living in regions with light skinned natives!

                  [1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.science.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;article&#x2F;how-europeans-evolved-white-skin" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.science.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;article&#x2F;how-europeans-evolve...

                  &gt; But the likely explanation for the pigmentation genes is to maximize vitamin D synthesis

                  [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cooperinstitute.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;african-americans-at-greatest-risk-of-vitamin-d-deficiency" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cooperinstitute.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;african-americans-at-gr...

                  1. xnickb · · focus · HN ↗
                    &gt; And, now you&#x27;ve discovered why Europeans have light skin [1]! And, why supplementation is suggested for those with dark skin [2] living in regions with light skinned natives!

                    What does the color of skin have to do with the normal amount of a vitamin in blood?

                    Skin tone merely regulates how much you end up producing. Just because your skin is bright doesn&#x27;t mean you need less of a vitamin.

                    I&#x27;m sure there is some variance in this, but I doubt it&#x27;s swinging between 20 and 30 ng&#x2F;mL

                    1. nomel · · focus · HN ↗
                      Because vitamin d is produced by sun. Light skin means less sun is required. I suggest a cursory look into vitamin d production.
                      1. xnickb · · focus · HN ↗
                        Are you kidding? The discussion is explicitly about the normal levels. How much you produce is irrelevant. The _level_. As in how much of it is floating in your blood.

                        Some levels are normal, some are low. &quot;Skin color&quot; affects production as you pointed out, but that has literally nothing to do with what we are discussing.

                        1. nomel · · focus · HN ↗
                          Yes, and if you go back, that&#x27;s why I suggested a first approximation would be looking at any native with an average days worth of outdoor activity and attire, pre civilization. For example, native African in their sunny climate, native European in their cloudy climate, etc.
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