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Federal judge orders Texas to air condition all prisons by the end of 2029

120 points · 202 comments · bonefishgrill

boredatoms · 1790270522 · focus · HN ↗
The US needs to get over this whole ‘punishment’ view of prison. It either a social-safety quarantine, or a rehabilitation
1. mrits · 1790270740 · focus · HN ↗
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  1. Glemmlko · 1790271477 · focus · HN ↗
    No it shouldn't.
    It should be the understanding of a society that no human being is just 'bad'. A human being became 'bad' by a definiton of a society due to circumstances like upbringing, environment etc. and a society which failed you.
    Prison is the removal of you from society due to impatibility of current values and should help you become 'better'.
    Be happy that you had good/avg parents, the mental strength to help yourself, money, luck, body strength, whatever it was which allowed you to comment on HN instead of being in a prison.
    WalterBright · 1790271856 · focus · HN ↗
    > due to circumstances like upbringing, environment etc. and a society which failed you.
    It's always someone else's fault.
    Glemmlko · 1790272155 · focus · HN ↗
    Its a brain, a brain which gets teached how to act and behave.
    Some learn how to think critical, some don't. Some are intelligent, some are empathic, some don't understand the world very well.
    Don't simplify this by a snarky and ignorant comment.
    I'm not even against moving people out of our society, its fucked up enough that this is necessayr, but i'm against cruelty and i'm for helping.
    WalterBright · 1790274191 · focus · HN ↗
    > Don't simplify this by a snarky and ignorant comment.
    It is simple. People have free will. Bad people know what right and wrong is, and they chose wrong.
    t-writescode · 1790274838 · focus · HN ↗
    Oh honey… tell that to Alan Turing, or millions or gay people, or the literal millions of people who smoked pot and are stuck in prison forever.
    And that’s ignoring all the laws people break on the regular.
    WalterBright · 1790275072 · focus · HN ↗
    I did not say there was no injustice happening.
    Nor did I say that all laws are just.
    I'm not your honey, either.
    t-writescode · 1790277218 · focus · HN ↗
    Is your entire line of thinking about crime and punishment not entirely dependent upon laws and punishments, as they exist right now, being perfectly just?
    Because otherwise, “they knew the law and chose to break it, therefore they get what’s coming to them” is a bit Javert from Les Mis.
    WalterBright · 1790284548 · focus · HN ↗
    I was pretty clear.
    > “they knew the law and chose to break it, therefore they get what’s coming to them”
    Please don't make up quotes and attribute them to me. That's called the strawman fallacy.
    t-writescode · 1790285944 · focus · HN ↗
    I'll quote you clearly.
    > "People have free will. Bad people know what right and wrong is, and they chose wrong."[0]
    Broader Context: In response to a commentary on how 'good and bad' can be complicated:
    > "It's always someone else's fault."[1]
    Broader-broader Context: Prison is punishment, etc.
    So, a reasonable chain of thought here and paraphrase of what you've said is: "people know right from wrong" -> we're in the context of crime and punishment, so this is operating as a substitute for "they know what's legal and illegal". If it's not, it doesn't belong here, because at this point we should all know that legality != morality.
    "and they chose wrong" -> therefore they chose the consequences - they chose punishment. The colloquial way of saying that is "they get what's coming to them".
    So, while those weren't your words, was that your implicit statement? And if not, what is the implicit statement?
    I ask because the people in those cells are real, and 23 of them died of heat.
    [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49834799 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49834226
    WalterBright · 1790287688 · focus · HN ↗
    > at this point we should all know that legality != morality
    Recall that I wrote this to you:
    "I did not say there was no injustice happening. Nor did I say that all laws are just."
    lcnPylGDnU4H9OF · 1790337893 · focus · HN ↗
    Recall also that you wrote this here:
    > People have free will. Bad people know what right and wrong is, and they chose wrong.
    The context being that the "bad" person is such simply because they chose to break the law. Even if it doesn't match your thoughts, surely you can see how one might read your comments as both claiming that laws are not morals, and also that those who break the law made the "wrong" (moral) choice (put another way: laws are morals).
    Breaking the law is not strictly a moral failure. It can be, but they have an "orthogonal" relationship. To that point:
    > I did not say there was no injustice happening. Nor did I say that all laws are just.
    Choosing to follow an unjust law is a moral failure. That moral failure is baked into the word "unjust". This blanket statement that the choice to commit a crime is a choice to be "bad" is not self-evident (or it's laughably tautological) and, regardless, is contradicted by the assertion that not all laws are "just".
    Of course, one can assume you have more nuanced thoughts than that; the point of my coment is that you've not communicated that nuance here, so you appear to be contradicting yourself: saying both that laws are morals and that they are not morals.
    WalterBright · 1790369177 · focus · HN ↗
    I am not making any claim about the law. You have confused that with what honor is.

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