Thread

1. boredatoms · 1790270522 · focus · HN ↗

   The US needs to get over this whole ‘punishment’ view of prison. It either a social-safety quarantine, or a rehabilitation

   1. mrits · 1790270740 · focus · HN ↗

      [dead]

      1. vidarh · 1790274105 · focus · HN ↗

         Given that the American prison system is performing as badly as it is, even if you ignore any concern for the prisoners, the US system is immoral even purely on the basis of the harm it does to society through the high reoffending rates.

         1. 0xDEAFBEAD · 1790275135 · focus · HN ↗

            Based on a quick Google, recividism rates don't seem notably high in the US.

            <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldpopulationreview.com&#x2F;country-rankings&#x2F;recidivism-rates-by-country" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldpopulationreview.com&#x2F;country-rankings&#x2F;recidivis...

            I also think recidivism is too confounded by the prison population to tell us a lot about the quality of the prison itself.

            1. vidarh · 1790279167 · focus · HN ↗

               Compare to places that actually care about reform, like Norway.

               1. 0xDEAFBEAD · 1790339916 · focus · HN ↗

                  &quot;Your prison system isn&#x27;t one of the best in the world, therefore it is immoral&quot;

                  1. ndsipa_pomu · 1790342728 · focus · HN ↗

                     The U.S. prison system isn&#x27;t immoral due to it not being one of the best in the world, but is immoral due to the way that it treats people as less than human.

                     1. 0xDEAFBEAD · 1790422200 · focus · HN ↗

                        So far when I research the alleged problems with the US prison system, I learn they are also generally present in other prison systems.

                        There seems to be a general trend of &quot;US inverse exceptionalism&quot;, i.e. arguing that the US is a uniquely bad country on the basis of very weak evidence. People complain a lot about systems in the US, but if you look at international comparisons, the US doesn&#x27;t usually look too bad. Here in this thread people are up in arms because... 1&#x2F;3 of Texas prisons have A&#x2F;C, and the remainder have non-AC heat control measures. I doubt this is substantially different from non-US prisons.

                        1. ndsipa_pomu · 1790427383 · focus · HN ↗

                           &gt; So far when I research the alleged problems with the US prison system, I learn they are also generally present in other prison systems.

                           The difference is probably the degree of abuse and cruelty.

                           Also, the U.S. seems to claim to be a civilised society, so it would make sense to compare its facilities (including prisons) with those in other &quot;civilised&quot; societies. When you do that kind of comparison, you may be shocked to discover that U.S. prisons are amongst the worst.

                        2. vidarh · 1790525440 · focus · HN ↗

                           The US is uniquely bad because of its dramatically higher number of incarceration - one of the highest per capita in the world, only beaten by El Salvardor, Cuba, Rwanda, and Turkmenistan. If those are the kind of countries you&#x27;re content to be compared to... Yikes.

                           It is also bad because of its brutal prison system, but it is not the most brutal by any means. For a democracy that purports to be a civilized developed country, on the other hand, it is pretty high up on the list.

                           Personally, if I somehow magically found myself on a US jury, I&#x27;d find it morally really hard to convict even in the case of an open and shut case due to the inhumane US prison system.

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