Thread

1. MichaelNolan · 1790270525 · focus · HN ↗

   Just out of college I didn’t know what I wanted to do, so I took a job at a prison near Phoenix AZ. It was outdoors, the cells had no AC. In a 10 hour shift in 115 (46c) degree weather I would go through 1.5 gallons (5.6 liters) of water. Every single day at least one inmate would pass out from the heat. At least they got heat for the winter.

   Thankfully I left all that behind a long time ago. Though I just checked and they still don’t have AC.

   There is a fairly famous quote: “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons” - Fyodor Dostoevsky

   1. WalterBright · 1790271753 · focus · HN ↗

      Arizona was thinly populated before A/C.

      1. AlotOfReading · 1790295712 · focus · HN ↗

         Not really. The precolonial southwest was fairly densely populated, with some areas exceeding their modern density. Population density grew sparser for various reasons after the mid-14th century until Spanish colonialism created some dramatic demographic changes. The southwest remained a pretty lawless place on the frontiers of empires where armed conflict was commonplace for the next few hundred years, until after the turn of the 20th century. Would you want to move into a civil war even if it had AC?

         AC was coincidentally invented as all of this was clearing up, but it wouldn't become ubiquitous until decades later after the major cities had been established with large populations. And even then, I'd blame cheap accessibility of long distance transportation more than AC for the modern state.

         1. JuniperMesos · 1790319653 · focus · HN ↗

            What parts of the pre-14th-century american southwest corresponding to modern Arizona were more densely populated than they are today? I'm a bit skeptical of that claim, given how much more human density is possible under conditions of technological modernity compared to anytime prior to the 14th century.

            1. AlotOfReading · 1790325107 · focus · HN ↗

               Bits of Mesa that are now extremely low density suburban development were at one point large Hohokam pueblos. It's not an entirely fair comparison because it's essentially comparing high density midrise apartments to some of the least dense suburban sprawl in the US, but it's not wrong.

               At a more regional level, the area around Cortez, CO is less densely populated than it was simply because virtually no one lives there now. Kayenta, much of the Navajo nation, the upper Gila region, etc are similar.

         2. WalterBright · 1790369607 · focus · HN ↗

            I don't believe that 14th century Indian population counts have any reliability. Estimates of pre-Columbian populations in the US area vary from 10 million to 100 million.

            1. AlotOfReading · 1790378590 · focus · HN ↗

               You can scarcely throw a stone in Phoenix without hitting an old pueblo. I don't see why continent-wide demographics have any relevance.

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.