Thread

1. radiorental · 1790264419 · focus · HN ↗

   This isn't binary, teachers have limited bandwidth and supplementing real teaching with AI supported research can work.

   Students need to understand what AI is and is not.

   Something got lost as we transitioned from parents telling their kids to 'go play and do not come back until dinner is ready' to us handholding & driving our kids from one social/sport activity to the next.

   While it causes fights with my kids, I blank refuse to do certain things for them (fix their internet connection, repair a toy or bike) I'll give them the tools and they know to ask when they get stuck.

   The act of learning through failure is a dying art these days. It's 'teach to the test', stressed out teachers, parents having too much to do compounded by taking on second, third jobs in this economy.

   Teaching our kids how to leverage AI is something parents should invest in. Its part of a broader education landscape.

   1. yardie · 1790265709 · focus · HN ↗

      As a parent I agree with you, but watching other kids get a leg up because their parents continue to jump in and save them. And your own get the double harsh reality of learning failure and then being punished for it through loss of placement and status. It's tragedy of the commons since everyone must pass no one can fail.

      > Teaching our kids how to leverage AI is something parents should invest in. Its part of a broader education landscape.

      The same was said for laptops and tablets. Now there is a push to remove them from the curriculum. Having them meant the students didn't retain anything because they were distracting. I feel using AI in place of pedagogy will have similar results. Why bother learning to retain any information when AI knows everything and can recall it in a split second.

      1. csa · 1790277991 · focus · HN ↗

         > but watching other kids get a leg up because their parents continue to jump in and save them

         Can you give us an example to what his looks like in your context (not necessarily you and your kids)?

         > The same was said for laptops and tablets. Now there is a push to remove them from the curriculum. Having them meant the students didn't retain anything because they were distracting. I feel using AI in place of pedagogy will have similar results

         Laptops, tablets, and AI are just tools. If the folks wielding these tools (or ostensibly teaching others to wield these tools) are not using a tool effectively, then we shouldn’t be surprised when the outcomes are unimpressive.

         Simple example — put a hammer in the hands of a skilled builder, and you can get a deck or a house frame. Put the same hammer in my hands, and you will get nothing more than bent nails and sore thumbs.

         All that said, just like I feel confident that I could learn how to use a hammer well if I took the time to learn and practice, I think students and teachers can learn to use their tools (laptops, tablets, AI, etc.) well if they take the time to learn and practice (ideally with some good scaffolding).

         1. Jare · 1790286984 · focus · HN ↗

            > If the folks wielding these tools are not using a tool effectively

            I struggle with this argument when the subject ("the folks") turns out to be "many people", perhaps even a majority of people. If one teacher is an outlier that uses it badly then sure, the teacher is to blame and be judged. But if a collective is using it badly, then perhaps the capability of the collective should have been evaluated before handing the tool to them.

            I don't have an answer - it is bad to withhold a tool from the hands of people who will use it badly. But the overall outcome has to also count.

            1. csa · 1790289772 · focus · HN ↗

               > If one teacher is an outlier that uses it badly then sure, the teacher is to blame and be judged. But if a collective is using it badly, then perhaps the capability of the collective should have been evaluated before handing the tool to them.

               You won’t get any argument from me that most teachers are poorly trained. Money can largely buy someone out of that trap.

               That said, just forbidding a tool that is critical in modern life just because some/many people are bad at using it does not strike me as a particularly constructive solution to the problem.

               > I don't have an answer - it is bad to withhold a tool from the hands of people who will use it badly. But the overall outcome has to also count.

               My “solution” to this is not a popular one. Lower expectations for public mass education.

               Over the last 120 years, we have taken a curriculum that was targeted at elites and forced it onto almost everyone.

               High quality education should be available and cheap or free to everyone, but I really don’t think it should be mandatory.

               If we stopped compulsory education at 8th grade and replaced most high schools with some sort of other skill development program or work/study program, the expectations and outcomes would probably be better aligned.

               Large parts of the tertiary education system would be gutted, but maybe that’s a good thing.

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