Thread

1. 9cb14c1ec0 · 1790257028 · focus · HN ↗

   Meanwhile, my non-smart fridge continues to run just fine. Why do we need smart fridges? That was always a bad idea.

   1. Legend2440 · 1790258111 · focus · HN ↗

      The trouble is that 'smart fridges' turn out to be just a regular fridge with an android tablet on the front. Which is useless.

      I would love a fridge with a camera inside and a smart enough AI to tell me (1. what's in the fridge (2. how long it's been there and (3. what I've eaten from it. Some companies have tried making this kind of fridge, but AFAIK they don't work very well.

      1. anentropic · 1790258171 · focus · HN ↗

         Why not just open the door and have a look in the fridge?

         1. Legend2440 · 1790258206 · focus · HN ↗

            ...while I'm at the grocery store on my way home from work?

            1. [deleted] · 1790258326 · focus · HN ↗

               [deleted]

            2. juvvel · 1790258373 · focus · HN ↗

               1. Look in fridge before work 2. Add any missing items to shopping list 3. Reference said list on the way home from work

               1. dotancohen · 1790258764 · focus · HN ↗

                  1. When you finish the milk, voice record "buy milk" on the phone.

                  2. At supermarket, listen to voice recordings.

                  I'm actually working on a pet project to transcribe my 20 years of voice recordings and organise them, then sync them between the phone and desktop. Maybe in the coming weeks I'll know that I needed milk in October 2008.

                  1. stackskipton · 1790259519 · focus · HN ↗

                     I mean, there are plenty of voice assistants these days. We use our Alexa for this but both Siri and Gemini could easily do it. Whenever we run low on something, "Alexa, add milk to our shopping list" and then can look at application at grocery store.
                  2. vel0city · 1790268462 · focus · HN ↗

                     And what happens when its your kid who finishes the milk and doesn't mention it to you?

                     Or you didn't finish the milk, but didn't realize it had gone bad until after you got home with ingredients for a meal depending on milk.

                     1. asdff · 1790284225 · focus · HN ↗

                        Have a shared shopping list with the family. Teach your kid to put the milk on the list after they finish it. Be at least somewhat aware of how old your food is. Problem solved. Somehow we managed this model for a century.

                        1. vel0city · 1790303016 · focus · HN ↗

                           Somehow we also managed to get by before we had pretty much any kind of technology. Somehow we managed without trains, somehow we managed without telecommunications, somehow we managed without refrigeration, somehow we managed without websites and forums.

                           Maybe we could do better. Maybe we can automate this as well.

                           1. asdff · 1790310560 · focus · HN ↗

                              Yup, end game is becoming a Guild Navigator. Obese, immobile, suspended in a tank full of dopamine. Why beat around the bush with all this doing stuff and using our limbs or god forbid thinking? Straight to the neurotransmitters, pure efficiency.

                              1. vel0city · 1790337709 · focus · HN ↗

                                 I take it you don't bother writing things down, wouldn't want to have the paper take the place of your own memory turning your brain to mush right?

                                 And obviously you just walk anywhere and everywhere. Wouldn't want your legs to grow feeble and useless. Even riding a bicycle is reducing how much exercise you'd get otherwise, it's simply a tool for the weak.

                     2. dotancohen · 1790287025 · focus · HN ↗

                        Well, then, of your cows can only be milked on the 'morn you'll have to do with milking one of the goats.
               2. mingus88 · 1790258901 · focus · HN ↗

                  I think the point is these devices sell some kind of convenience. Anyone who grew up of a certain time is seduced with this idea of our world being perfectly in tune with our needs, like the Jetsons.

                  Now we have generations of people who grew up with surveillance capitalism and broken promises I wonder what the next big wave will be

               3. pessimizer · 1790261036 · focus · HN ↗

                  I instead use the technology of "whiteboard on fridge, where I write what I want or what is running out." That way it works when I didn't even plan to shop, because I vaguely remember what's on the whiteboard on the fridge.
            3. matsemann · 1790258624 · focus · HN ↗

               I'm biased working for an online grocer, but isn't the problem really that you are in a store making the decision instead of in your kitchen at home? Half the goods I buy anyways aren't in a fridge, so a smart fridge only solves parts of the problem.

               1. jjulius · 1790258948 · focus · HN ↗

                  Yeah, if the argument truly is, "I want to be able to know everything I need to buy for cooking," then you need "smart" everything - cabinets, bread baskets, a way of analyzing the produce sitting in a bowl on the counter, pantries, freezers, and so on.

                  Perhaps it's because I'm the cook of the family, but to my mind, if you're in your kitchen on a daily basis, it's incredibly easy to have a strong idea of what you have at home when you're at the store. It's never perfect and once in a while you double up or miss things, but that's life!

                  1. bluGill · 1790260702 · focus · HN ↗

                     I'm not the only cook in my family though. Last two nights I made dinner, but Monday my wife did. I'm not sure who will cook tonight (I need to get my kids to start doing more of that). The result of that is nobody knows exactly what the other person used up.

                     We do have a shared shopping list. If I remember I'll put things I use up on the list, but often I'm busy at the time I notice because the thing on the stove needs to be stirred constantly... Last night I used one can of beans leaving two more - I didn't put beans on the list, but maybe I should have. Overall this system is working, but it is annoying and sometimes not ideal.

                     1. jjulius · 1790263099 · focus · HN ↗

                        >I'm not the only cook in my family though. Last two nights I made dinner, but Monday my wife did. I'm not sure who will cook tonight (I need to get my kids to start doing more of that). The result of that is nobody knows exactly what the other person used up.

                        My wife cooks sometimes too, but usually it's fairly easy for me to observe what she made and have a good sense of what went into the meal.

                        >We do have a shared shopping list. If I remember I'll put things I use up on the list, but often I'm busy at the time I notice because the thing on the stove needs to be stirred constantly... Last night I used one can of beans leaving two more - I didn't put beans on the list, but maybe I should have. Overall this system is working, but it is annoying and sometimes not ideal.

                        Same for us. I wanted to make pinto bean tacos last night but forgot the pinto beans at the store last weekend, because I'd assumed we'd had some. We used it as an opportunity to pivot and have a random meal that involved using up extras in our pantry and freezer. Life will always have annoying moments that aren't always ideal, there's no amount of automation that will eliminate them. It's good for us to experience those moments and use them as growth opportunities (not saying you don't, I'm just speaking generally here).

                        1. bluGill · 1790285884 · focus · HN ↗

                           Last night I was cooking while my wife took my kids to practice - they got home just as I was putting everything on the above. In short she couldn't observe everything. This happens commonly in my house these days.
                     2. asdff · 1790284393 · focus · HN ↗

                        > Overall this system is working, but it is annoying and sometimes not ideal.

                        And costs you nothing. Is easy to roll out. Doesn't ever need replacement. Doesn't ever fall apart. Lasts forever.

                        The smart fridge will also screw up and not get it all right 100% of the time. And for that, it will cost you handsomely, will be difficult to implement in all your kitchen, will need constant replacement, will fall apart, will not last forever.

                        Framed like this, the smart solution is actually worse.

                        1. bluGill · 1790285680 · focus · HN ↗

                           I remember when someone got a car to 100k miles - they called all their friends to see the car turn over to all 0's. They had to add oil before they left, and drove off in a cloud of smoke. They had to avoid puddles or the spray through the floors would get mud all over everybody...

                           Point is things advance. the first iteration might be as bad as you say, but they are likely to fix the bugs and make it better over time.

                           1. asdff · 1790285947 · focus · HN ↗

                              Well you are still paying orders of magnitude more than a pen and paper grocery list. For what in my mind is no new real functionality. Just the ability to get a bit lazier and think a bit less. I don't know about you but I'm trying not to get senile here. Thinking is actually a good thing, not a chore. A muscle that isn't under use atrophies.
            4. netrap · 1790258743 · focus · HN ↗

               makes me wonder maybe if NFC/RFID strips were cheap enough you could have all the items tagged in the house and your phone could tell you what you have.. but probably causes e-waste though

               1. vel0city · 1790268653 · focus · HN ↗

                  The other problem is that just an equivalent barcode but NFC product tag isn't going to tell you that you're down to half a stick of butter, it'll just say you have butter. And that's assuming you keep the packaging.

                  Anything you've prepared at home will also not be tracked by such a system.

            5. crisnoble · 1790259088 · focus · HN ↗

               Everyone is arguing over a feature that this fridge does not have.

               1. phoghed · 1790260655 · focus · HN ↗

                  And everyone is aware of that, because it was explicitly stated by the commenter that kicked this off, /user?id=Legend2440

                  It’s “wouldn’t this hypothetical feature be great” vs “my feeble mind cannot even imagine why anyone would ever want that”

         2. Systemerror7A69 · 1790258377 · focus · HN ↗

            Not the person you asked but I can answer that from my perspective:

            I am always on the lookout to automatate as much boring, everyday tasks. A Smart Fridge like that would allow you to generate shopping lists and reduce food waste by alerting you to possible soon-to-be-spoiled food.

            A bit like what roombas are doing for cleaning. You still need to do it yourself a bit, but they help.

            Not necessary, not even a gamechanger but another neat home automation. Would be nice, sad to hear they don't work well.

            1. eulers_secret · 1790258942 · focus · HN ↗

               We need smart pantries to fully realize the “auto shopping list”, though… so a smart fridge is a half solution at best.

               I even store produce (ex onions) on the counter tops, so I guess smart counters as well

               1. curiousObject · 1790259546 · focus · HN ↗

                  >”a smart fridge is a half solution at best”

                  A car is a half solution to going to work. A stove is a half solution to preparing food.

                  Half solutions are what people need. They’re the solutions we are using every day.

                  There is this huge problem with advertising that makes consumers think a half solution is a 100% solution. Most smart product makers do that trick. But, apart from that problem, ‘the perfect is the enemy of the good’

                  Edit: but no way would I buy any smart or connected fridge from Samsung. I don’t anticipate that being a positive experience

                  1. dns_snek · 1790261483 · focus · HN ↗

                     > A car is a half solution to going to work.

                     > A stove is a half solution to preparing food.

                     A working grocery tracking system is a half-solution to effortless shopping.

                     A half-working grocery tracking system is useless, much like a car without an engine.

                     1. curiousObject · 1790262288 · focus · HN ↗

                        >A working grocery tracking system is a half-solution to effortless shopping.

                        >A half-working grocery tracking system is useless, much like a car without an engine.

                        Yes. Something designed to be a half solution can be useful. But a full solution which is broken is probably worse than useless.

                        1. dns_snek · 1790263368 · focus · HN ↗

                           I can't really think of a use case for a grocery tracking system that only tracks a third of my groceries. A system that tracks everything would be massively useful, however.

                           1. curiousObject · 1790266631 · focus · HN ↗

                              >I can't really think of a use case for a grocery tracking system that only tracks a third of my groceries.

                              Me too. I think I’m not communicating clearly. Sorry.

                              What I’m talking about is a system that does only one third of the steps in the total end-to-end process for ALL your groceries. You do the rest yourself, or use other help.

                              I’m not advocating a broken system that claims to do that complete process, but really ignores two thirds of your groceries. That would be damn stupid.

                              Do you understand what I mean?

                  2. dieselgate · 1790261684 · focus · HN ↗

                     “Half solution” seems like an odd way to say tool?

                     1. curiousObject · 1790262445 · focus · HN ↗

                        “tool” seems like a good way to describe a half solution. We use and combine various tools and our own skills to do what we want
                  3. [deleted] · 1790265578 · focus · HN ↗

                     [deleted]

               2. freeone3000 · 1790259970 · focus · HN ↗

                  You should be able to combine two half solutions into a full solution.

                  It might actually be easier to start with the smart pantry! An in-cabinet kit that can be tested entirely dry and warm and open, and then expanded to the fridge.

               3. bluGill · 1790260420 · focus · HN ↗

                  What I need is a whole kitchen camera that notices when I put things in the fridge/pantry and then take them out. Bonus if it can say "The lettuce in your fridge is probably expired, use it or toss it today".

                  The fridge/pantry camera is a useful addition, but most of the value would be a system that just tracks what I put in/take out.

            2. hyperhello · 1790259915 · focus · HN ↗

               Your enthusiasm is catching. I’m not sure I would ever consider a fridge with a built in camera though because of the bad manufacturer incentives. Maybe you could find a wireless camera that you put inside and the fridge related processing - the real point - is done somewhere else?

               1. voidUpdate · 1790261188 · focus · HN ↗

                  Id want to be careful of it getting cold and damp if you put a consumer camera inside a fridge. You'd ned one rated for that sort of environment
            3. asdff · 1790284089 · focus · HN ↗

               Seems like it would be better solved with a phone app you can just scan the receipt and log your usage. It would get you out of having to buy a $1000 fridge and also solve the pantry issue. Actively logging your usage vs passively might have other downstream benefits like being more aware of your macros.
         3. oh_my_goodness · 1790258579 · focus · HN ↗

            That does nothing to solve my real problem, which is too little surveillance.
         4. phoghed · 1790258979 · focus · HN ↗

            Why not do the more labor intensive, higher energy use, higher friction, less convenient version of anything? Why automate anything?

            1. jjulius · 1790259335 · focus · HN ↗

               Why the blind insistence upon automating everything?

               1. phoghed · 1790260367 · focus · HN ↗

                  It’s not blind insistence, and that framing reveals a real lack of imagination on your part in my opinion. A truly smart fridge that had an inventory of all my stuff, knew expiration dates, etc. hooked up to my chat agent would be wonderful.

                  1. applfanboysbgon · 1790260899 · focus · HN ↗

                     Do people have the memory of a goldfish or what? "I can't remember what's in my fridge" is not a problem I've ever had in my entire life. What is there even to automate? If you were talking about a smart fridge with an accompanying robot that automatically orders groceries, picked up the deliveries itself, and stocked your fridge that'd be something, at least... still an insanely, unbelievably wasteful use of both your personal and our planet's resources to save five minutes a week, but something. But that's not even what smart fridges promise. They promise to automate looking in the fridge, an activity that you must do every time you withdraw or deposit food from/into it anyways. Wonderful.

                     1. phoghed · 1790262013 · focus · HN ↗

                        > still an insanely, unbelievably wasteful use of both your personal and our planet's resources to save five minutes a week

                        Actually a cheap microcontroller and a few cameras over the lifetime of the fridge that caused me to open it say 50% less would save more money than it would waste by my estimate.

                        > If you were talking about a smart fridge with an accompanying robot that automatically orders groceries, picked up the deliveries itself, and stocked your fridge that'd be something, at least

                        Yeah.

                        Step 1: fridge with smart inventory

                        Step 2: hook it up to grok bot

                        Step 3: grok bot orders your food from Walmart+ InHome

                        So every piece of this exists except the hypothetical sci-fi fridge.

                        Again, I’m stunned by the complete and utter lack of imagination and critical thinking here. You guys are the offshore contractors of HN commenting.

                        > Do people have the memory of a goldfish or what?

                        This is actually a pretty good point. Many people do have poor memory for a plethora of reasons. This would be a great accessibility feature.

                        1. applfanboysbgon · 1790264677 · focus · HN ↗

                           Perhaps you could use your wonderfully amazing imagination to imagine the contents of your fridge as you last saw it when you opened it 8~12 hours ago to retrieve food or drink.

                           1. phoghed · 1790265875 · focus · HN ↗

                              Great comment after being demonstrably wrong on all points. Again, trivial to imagine a scenario where other people use the contents of the fridge too. Or that when someone grabs the milk they aren’t doing an inventory of all the drawers, checking what’s out of line of sight because it’s hidden behind something.

                              You can’t be a software developer with such a poor imagination and intuition. Debugging would be hell for you. Even worse because you’d fail to imagine the edge cases ahead of time.

                           2. zdp7 · 1790274329 · focus · HN ↗

                              I personally can't do that. I deal with aphantasia (I can't visualize anything in my head). I can put something in the fridge and not realize it's there, unless I can see it. Then on the other hand I can create 20+ character passwords (no words, numbers, symbols) and not need to write them down. I have way above average memory recall, but will often forget about items aren't normally in the fridge.
                        2. [deleted] · 1790269658 · focus · HN ↗

                           [deleted]

                     2. vel0city · 1790267706 · focus · HN ↗

                        > "I can't remember what's in my fridge" is not a problem I've ever had in my entire life.

                        I take it you've only ever lived alone then? Its pretty easy for someone in my household to consume food or add food without me knowing about it. And I definitely do not take a full and complete inventory every time I open the fridge.

                        I'd find it very handy to look at a glance and see the current stock of stuff I have in my house. I definitely don't know exactly how much butter I have at the moment, I don't know what the date is on the almond milk versus the whole milk, I don't know how many string cheese sticks are left after the kids grabbed their snacks for school. I don't know exactly how much salt or pepper or smoked paprika or herbes de provence or curry powder or semi-sweet morsels or baking soda I happen to have on hand.

                        I don't know the technology to seamlessly track all of this is realistically at hand, but it sure would be nice. I do agree, every smart fridge today either doesn't even try with this or just totally sucks at it.

                        But hey I guess you just have all that data totally memorized and you're entirely omnicient about everything your household consumes. Sure seems nice.

                     3. EvanAnderson · 1790268024 · focus · HN ↗

                        > Do people have the memory of a goldfish or what? "I can't remember what's in my fridge" is not a problem I've ever had in my entire life.

                        I have no problem remembering what's in the fridge. It doesn't do me any good because my wife and daughter also know what's in the fridge and they eat those things too.

                        Knowing I might need to pick something up while I'm out, particularly when nobody is home to check the remaining stock, would be handy.

                        Having said that, I don't want anything to do with the modern conception of a "smart fridge". If there was a self-hostable fridge camera I could install I might be into that. Otherwise, no thanks. I like my "dumb" fridge UI the way it is.

                  2. elzbardico · 1790374201 · focus · HN ↗

                     You must live a pretty uninteresting life if you think such a minor thing would be wonderful.

                     1. phoghed · 1790526517 · focus · HN ↗

                        Why?
            2. lemmetellya · 1790259950 · focus · HN ↗

               [dead]

         5. dieselgate · 1790261607 · focus · HN ↗

            I always just want to know how much of X or Y is on hand when I’m physically out and at the grocer. You can just buy another but that usually leads to folks storing 5 bottles of ketchup or whatever
         6. yreg · 1790269020 · focus · HN ↗

            Because you are at the supermarket trying to remember what you have at home.
         7. whackernews · 1790289158 · focus · HN ↗

            Because people are mentally unwell and would rather not spend any time actually in the moment and doing life. They’d rather just free up all this “wasted” time so they can sit on their arse and watch the 8th series of the latest Netflix programme. They live to consume.

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