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Italian parliament votes for return to nuclear energy

908 points · 818 comments · geox

  1. jacquesm · · focus · HN ↗
    I've seen quite a few SMR proposals over the last couple of years and not a single one that dared to address the whole cycle from deployment to eventual decommission as a function of the total revenues - costs to operate. Most of these projects seem to be made to bilk investors or governments rather than to actually produce power. The day Italy produces the first KWh that is net profitable to the operators without counting subsidies I will be highly amazed, and that's assuming they get to operational in the first place.
    1. asmodeuslucifer · · focus · HN ↗
      I agree, I tell everyone who will listen that no country, not Russia, China, Japan, France, USA etc has ever made nuclear power profitable. And you can't blame it on the environmentalists in China and Russia.

      That being said, many countries consider it a national security issue not to be held hostage to foreign oil.

      1. tremon · · focus · HN ↗
        Why the myopic focus on profitability? Only one nation has succeeded in making healthcare profitable, please tell us how that has led to the best outcome for society?
        1. Klaus23 · · focus · HN ↗
          Because for power creation there are alternatives, but for healthcare there aren't. Renewables are cheap now and they also solve the sovereignty issue. Ideally we could use land currently dedicated to energy crops to install solar panels that operate at a significantly higher efficiency.
          1. ImJamal · · focus · HN ↗
            Many countries do not have the raw materials to build solar, wind turbines, and batteries so it doesn't solve the sovereignty issue.
            1. AndrewDucker · · focus · HN ↗
              Once you have a solar panel you can't be cut off from using it. It's not like oil where you need regular deliveries forever.
              1. ImJamal · · focus · HN ↗
                Sure, but when your existing ones break or you need more you can have issues.
                1. triceratops · · focus · HN ↗
                  > when your existing ones break

                  They last 25 years. Enough time to spin up domestic manufacturing if you're really paranoid.

                  > or you need more

                  Lots of countries manufacture them today.

                  1. ImJamal · · focus · HN ↗
                    I'm not talking about manufacturing. I am talking about raw materials for chips, battery cells, etc. You can't be sovereign if you have the capability to build something but don't have the resources to build it
                    1. triceratops · · focus · HN ↗
                      If your electricity usage isn't growing like crazy, existing batteries can simply be recycled to make new ones.

                      What chips are you talking about?

                      Again, by your definition, almost no country is "sovereign" for anything. Not fossil fuels, not PV and renewables, and certainly not nuclear. It's an impossible standard but only renewables get held to it.

                      1. ImJamal · · focus · HN ↗
                        > What chips are you talking about?

                        Electronic chips in wind turbines, hydro stations, etc.. Believe it or not but all of these use chips...

                        > Again, by your definition, almost no country is "sovereign" for anything. Not fossil fuels, not PV and renewables, and certainly not nuclear. It's an impossible standard but only renewables get held to it.

                        I am not holding renewables to it. The person I was responding to made the erroneous claim that you would be sovereign with renewables. "Renewables are cheap now and they also solve the sovereignty issue." I am just pointing out that most countries wouldn't actually have sovereignty and would still be reliant on other countries.

                        I am the one holding the consistent standard since I believe most countries wouldn't be sovereign regardless of them using fossil fuels, nuclear, solar, wind, etc.

                        1. triceratops · · focus · HN ↗
                          Ok so no one meets the ImJamal standard of sovereignty. Might as well go with the source of energy that pollutes the least and allows you to be import-free for the longest amount of time - solar, wind, and batteries.
                          1. ImJamal · · focus · HN ↗
                            The US, Canada, Russia and many other countries could be sovereign with oil and coal.

                            China, Brazil, Russia and other countries have a lot of rare earth minerals to build electronics for turbines and other sources of power.

                            Australia, Canada, Russia and other countries have a decent amount of uranium.

                            So, yes, some countries meet the definition of energy sovereignty.

                            1. triceratops · · focus · HN ↗
                              If you think all those countries are ImJamal Sovereign you don't know what you're talking about.
                              1. ImJamal · · focus · HN ↗
                                I'm not saying they are currently sovereign, only that they could be if necessary.
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