Thread

1. Aurornis · 1790183094 · focus · HN ↗

   This statistic constantly confuses people who haven't done hiring.

   If we decide we're going to grow headcount by 10 senior software engineers, we don't copy and paste the same job listing 10 times. We leave it open and collect resumes through that. At a large or fast growing company, we might never stop interviewing and hiring senior software engineers. The listing stays open for a year or more.

   There are also specialty roles where hiring takes months. I've had niche roles open where we didn't get any applicants with any experience on the topic for over 90 days on multiple occasions.

   1. prerok · 1790183186 · focus · HN ↗

      That's fair but still indicates shortage, no?

      1. Bratmon · 1790184040 · focus · HN ↗

         No, the exact opposite! A high percentage of ghost jobs indicates that there are very few actual jobs open in the field, which suggests an oversupply of workers.

         1. vanuatu · 1790185951 · focus · HN ↗

            if the listings are open for the reasons OP stated, then yes it does indicate a shortage. if companies hired all the SWEs they wanted they wouldn't still have the listings

            1. pixl97 · 1790186378 · focus · HN ↗

               100% untrue.

               Let's say I have 50 employees working for $100,000 each.

               Why would I not want to replace 25 of them that are willing to work for $50,000 each if they are producing anywhere close to the same quality.

               In a case like this always open job listings are a warning to others.

               Also there is something called market sampling. Where you put up these job openings and look at the quality of applicants in relation to the employees you already have to ensure you're on the right track internally.

               1. jameshart · 1790188827 · focus · HN ↗

                  > In a case like this always open job listings are a warning to others

                  ‘Warning this company has management practices oriented around remaining solvent for the long term, rather than providing a sinecure for workers’?

                  1. pixl97 · 1790190002 · focus · HN ↗

                     Warning: This company will replace your ass so far without regard to your actual abilities or their current profitability.

                     Companies do not have human rights. They are a pleasant fiction the population allows because it's more effective than not having said rules. We the people can revoke those rules the moment the meta-idea of corporations no longer serve the public good.

                     In the US at least we seemingly have come to believe the corporation is the ultimate organism and all rights should be sacrificed for its eternal cancerous growth.

                  2. johnnyanmac · 1790190529 · focus · HN ↗

                     Not every company is a hungry startup trying to hustle their way to a billion dollars. Businesses also value stability, and stable labor is a big factor in pretty much every other field.

                     You don't get stability by laying off workers every 2 years .

               2. smcg · 1790190537 · focus · HN ↗

                  What if your $100,000 worker is actually more than twice as productive as your $50,000 worker?
               3. vanuatu · 1790270778 · focus · HN ↗

                  because the pie grows, and if you are in a competitive market which most businesses are in, you don't want to lose talent and market prestige to your competitors
            2. rsynnott · 1790187980 · focus · HN ↗

               Big companies never hire all the SWEs they want, because there is always attrition. At a certain scale, there will always be people leaving and a constant need to backfill.

               1. vanuatu · 1790270862 · focus · HN ↗

                  Exactly, hence why having jobs open indicates a shortage.
            3. Bratmon · 1790199253 · focus · HN ↗

               > if companies hired all the SWEs they wanted they wouldn't still have the listings

               I honestly can't tell if this a troll or not, but in case it isn't:

               Because "number job openings" are used as a signal of company health, Ghost Jobs are far far more common than job listings which companies intend to hire from!

               1. vanuatu · 1790270835 · focus · HN ↗

                  Is this true? some of the highest aura companies have very limited jobs open to signal exclusivity, or have such a high bar that they are in perpetual shortage

                  And large cos are always hiring

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