This is almost comically backwards. HN is very pro-union, like reddit. In fact, it's pretty much the same users and political opinions as reddit.
It's funny he mentioned the grok discussion. The other day I saw grok got some new release, and although I don't use it, I was curious whether it is any good, and was pleasantly surprised people were actually discussing it and not all running to the keyboard to see who could get their EM comments in first. Like they really cleaned up the place.
This article complains that all their political comments got removed for calling Elon 'fascist', 'nazi' etc. - yes, that's the point; your useless, political opinions nobody else wants to hear, get removed.
The article is practically a meme, using every buzzword imaginable. Racism, sexism, nazi, hate, bigotry, wokeness, etc., they're all there. The person who wrote this article is practically an NPC.
Here's a great example (and I don't mean to pick on you personally, jmyeet).
You wrote "Elon "Sieg Heil"ed twice on national TV." as if it were undisputed fact. This "fact" been repeated here to the extent that "only Nazis could have interpreted it differently" is the default.
Well, I interpreted it differently. It was an (admittedly inartful) attempt to extend his "heart" to the crowd. This is further supported by his spoken words at the time of the supposed salute: "My heart goes out to you."
Perhaps I just like to assume innocence as opposed to malevolence, but this explanation makes sense to me. Elon isn't the most effective public speaker, so it's entirely reasonable to me that he was just trying to mime what he was saying.
You're welcome to disagree, but the fact that folks here just uncritically repeat "Elon is a Nazi; he even saluted" without any pushback is another example of the symptoms I describe in my earlier comment.
Congratulations, you have political opinions. Despite your claims elsewhere, you’re not “politically neutral.” Nor do you believe, in practice, that political opinions do not belong on HN.
> Congratulations, you have political opinions. Despite your claims elsewhere,
Your underlying point is correct of course, but can you please make your substantive points without snark, and avoid the flamewar style? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
This is in the site guidelines: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html">https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
@dang - "Your underlying point is correct, of course". Could you please explain which statement of sheafification's, specifically, is correct (besides the fact that I have political opinions, which I do not believe is mutually exclusive with being politically neutral)?
Yes, happy to - but I'll be offline for most of the next hour, so it might have to be later.
I should mention though that I wasn't making a point about your comment (which I haven't really read) and certainly not about you personally. Rather, it's a general observation that has come up many times over the years.
With respect (especially for the work you do here), this isn't ok.
sheafification's reply was specifically to me and specifically personal. (Every sentence was directed at me - not something that I wrote.) There was no "general observation" that I can see in his reply. For the record, here is his reply in its entirety:
> Congratulations, you have political opinions. Despite your claims elsewhere, you’re not “politically neutral.” Nor do you believe, in practice, that political opinions do not belong on HN.
Where is the "general observation that has come up many times over the years"? What part of this response read as "correct" to you, and why?
From my reading, it was an ad hominem generalization based on a flawed understanding of my previous post designed to dismiss my opinions based on some perceived contradiction. What about this is "correct"?
I agree that that language was too personal. That's one reason why I asked the commenter not to post like that in the future.
The underlying point, as I understand it, is that it's not possible to be "politically neutral" or "apolitical" because what counts as "political" is itself politically contested. This is an argument that people often make in discussions like this—it has come up countless times over the years—so I was pattern-matching in interpreting the GP comment that way.
FWIW, although I happen to agree with that claim in general, I disagree with the consequences people usually try to derive from it (for example, that it is necessary to choose a single political position from which to moderate a site like this one).
None of that is pertinent to the moderation issue, though, which is that if people are going to make points like this in HN threads, they need to do it without snark, personal attack, or other flamewar devices. My moderation reply was about that, not "is it possible to be politically neutral or not"—it would be the same regardless of topic. I just prefaced it in this case with "your underlying point is correct of course" because (1) I like to say something to connect with the person I'm replying to, if I can*; and (2) it makes the "you're only moderating this because you disagree with my opinion" objection a tad less likely.
@dang - thank you for the explanation. I can see how you might read this into the post, but I think it's a real stretch to derive that conclusion from three sentences that ascribe motivation and belief to me personally. You have more experience with this than I do, so I'll respect your conclusion.
baddie_twoshoes · · focus · HN ↗
It's funny he mentioned the grok discussion. The other day I saw grok got some new release, and although I don't use it, I was curious whether it is any good, and was pleasantly surprised people were actually discussing it and not all running to the keyboard to see who could get their EM comments in first. Like they really cleaned up the place.
This article complains that all their political comments got removed for calling Elon 'fascist', 'nazi' etc. - yes, that's the point; your useless, political opinions nobody else wants to hear, get removed.
The article is practically a meme, using every buzzword imaginable. Racism, sexism, nazi, hate, bigotry, wokeness, etc., they're all there. The person who wrote this article is practically an NPC.
jmyeet · · focus · HN ↗
freeli · · focus · HN ↗
You wrote "Elon "Sieg Heil"ed twice on national TV." as if it were undisputed fact. This "fact" been repeated here to the extent that "only Nazis could have interpreted it differently" is the default.
Well, I interpreted it differently. It was an (admittedly inartful) attempt to extend his "heart" to the crowd. This is further supported by his spoken words at the time of the supposed salute: "My heart goes out to you."
Perhaps I just like to assume innocence as opposed to malevolence, but this explanation makes sense to me. Elon isn't the most effective public speaker, so it's entirely reasonable to me that he was just trying to mime what he was saying.
You're welcome to disagree, but the fact that folks here just uncritically repeat "Elon is a Nazi; he even saluted" without any pushback is another example of the symptoms I describe in my earlier comment.
sheafification · · focus · HN ↗
Congratulations, you have political opinions. Despite your claims elsewhere, you’re not “politically neutral.” Nor do you believe, in practice, that political opinions do not belong on HN.
dang · · focus · HN ↗
Your underlying point is correct of course, but can you please make your substantive points without snark, and avoid the flamewar style? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
This is in the site guidelines: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html">https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
freeli · · focus · HN ↗
dang · · focus · HN ↗
I should mention though that I wasn't making a point about your comment (which I haven't really read) and certainly not about you personally. Rather, it's a general observation that has come up many times over the years.
freeli · · focus · HN ↗
sheafification's reply was specifically to me and specifically personal. (Every sentence was directed at me - not something that I wrote.) There was no "general observation" that I can see in his reply. For the record, here is his reply in its entirety:
> Congratulations, you have political opinions. Despite your claims elsewhere, you’re not “politically neutral.” Nor do you believe, in practice, that political opinions do not belong on HN.
Where is the "general observation that has come up many times over the years"? What part of this response read as "correct" to you, and why?
From my reading, it was an ad hominem generalization based on a flawed understanding of my previous post designed to dismiss my opinions based on some perceived contradiction. What about this is "correct"?
dang · · focus · HN ↗
The underlying point, as I understand it, is that it's not possible to be "politically neutral" or "apolitical" because what counts as "political" is itself politically contested. This is an argument that people often make in discussions like this—it has come up countless times over the years—so I was pattern-matching in interpreting the GP comment that way.
FWIW, although I happen to agree with that claim in general, I disagree with the consequences people usually try to derive from it (for example, that it is necessary to choose a single political position from which to moderate a site like this one).
None of that is pertinent to the moderation issue, though, which is that if people are going to make points like this in HN threads, they need to do it without snark, personal attack, or other flamewar devices. My moderation reply was about that, not "is it possible to be politically neutral or not"—it would be the same regardless of topic. I just prefaced it in this case with "your underlying point is correct of course" because (1) I like to say something to connect with the person I'm replying to, if I can*; and (2) it makes the "you're only moderating this because you disagree with my opinion" objection a tad less likely.
(* which equally includes you, of course!)
freeli · · focus · HN ↗
Thanks for flagging the personal attack.
[deleted] · · focus · HN ↗
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