Thread

1. giarc · 1790175355 · focus · HN ↗

   I think these are the key sentences in that article (below). This bylaw is probably targeted toward citizens that come in and berate staff because they find out they have an unpaid parking ticket from 2 years ago that they have to pay before renewing their license (for example).

   >The new Montreal bylaw would ban insults, harassment, threats, abuse and intimidation, as well as offensive and aggressive behaviour.

   >It also includes provisions saying city employees could refuse to provide services to someone who misbehaves. However, the bylaw doesn't define what could be construed as an insult.

   1. cucumber3732842 · 1790175611 · focus · HN ↗

      > This bylaw is probably targeted toward citizens that come in and berate staff because they find out they have an unpaid parking ticket from 2 years ago that they have to pay before renewing their license (for example).

      That's how the (evil) people who support it will construe it. In reality that kind of stuff doesn't really bother employees all that much because it's just part of the job, they knew it going in and everyone agrees those sort of people are out of line.

      What bothers employees is when they get heckled for doing (in the course of their job) stuff that just about everyone agrees is wrong, bad, stupid or heavy handed, because most of those employees know deep down they're in the wrong, and having it pointed out and having enough of the public agree with the hecklers in message if not in delivery is a real morale killer. And then your burnt out employees stop giving a shit, do a bad job, get caught on camera enforcing the "you had to lie through your teeth to defend it to begin with" policy in a way that lays bare how f-d up it is. And that's what they're trying to avoid by threatening to fine any peasant who opens their mouth.

      1. redanddead · 1790175904 · focus · HN ↗

         Yup. It’s symptomatic of poor governance. Government services not working as good as they should and of course people are pissed. To be frank, the government employees are divas and aren’t effective.

         You will find the same behavior across so many different government services — a culture of not taking charge, or like committee thinking. Nothing gets done.

         There’s a reason people are pissed.

         Idk what the solution is, my brain goes to automated government services, maybe something like Singapore

         1. cucumber3732842 · 1790176673 · focus · HN ↗

            I don't think it's even that the service that is delivered is unsatisfactory. I think it's that what the government is engaged in actively runs counter to what the people broadly want.

            Like when people say we need better sanitation, there's too many tent cities, this needs to be fixed, etc, etc, and the city goes and hires a bunch of employees who then get to work fining residents for trash bin violations no shit they get heckled even if they solve some token amount of the core problem (invariably just enough to let the liars in the comments go to bat for them without the lies being obvious). And you see this kind of thing on damn near every axis of government enforcement and social services these days.

            1. redanddead · 1790177801 · focus · HN ↗

               Agreed. It’s so not-Montreal

               The city and its people are way cooler than this

      2. SR2Z · 1790176902 · focus · HN ↗

         Obviously it bothers employees to have to deal with abuse. It's crazy to suggest otherwise, nobody likes being yelled at.

         IMO this rule is not good but there is a trade-off being made either way.

      3. geaibleu · 1790177241 · focus · HN ↗

         > In reality that kind of stuff doesn't really bother employees

         Yes it does

         >they knew it going in

         No. Nor civil employees nor service workers go to work expecting to be abused.

         You sound very much like a person who likes to verbally abuse those you deem beneath you

         1. cucumber3732842 · 1790197843 · focus · HN ↗

            While it's not pleasant angry people who are wrong or unjustified doesn't burn out employees.

            Angry people who are right burn out employees.

            Nobody likes being a human shield for their employer.

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.