Thread

Seattle City Council votes to ban surveillance pricing in sale of groceries

395 points · 229 comments · ortusdux

flowerlad · 1790184294 · focus · HN ↗
Why is this limited to groceries? I don't want to pay a different price than others for any category of item, not just groceries.
Should gyms be able to charge me more based on my weight? Should airlines charge me more because they know I need to travel urgently? Should pharmacies charge me more for medication because they know I have a chronic condition? Should an online retailer charge me more because my browsing history suggests I'm willing to pay a premium? Should insurance companies charge me more because they know I'm unlikely to shop around?
1. BeetleB · 1790185101 · focus · HN ↗
  If I'm selling to the wealthiest zip code, where the median house price is over $10M, should I be disallowed to charge higher prices? (Not for selling a house, but selling ordinary stuff to them).
  If I'm posting something for sale on Craigslist, and I don't put a price, is it OK if I quote different prices to different people who text me?
  I can see arguments both ways.
  1. ericmay · 1790185585 · focus · HN ↗
    > If I'm selling to the wealthiest zip code, where the median house price is over $10M, should I be disallowed to charge higher prices?
    I think so, because perhaps your costs to distribute those products is more too. But what I don't think you should be able to do is say, well your house was $50mm and your house was $1mm so you pay much more. Or you're wearing Air Force Ones so maybe your price is just a little more wink wink. It's a bit like hyper-targeted advertising versus general advertising.
    > If I'm posting something for sale on Craigslist, and I don't put a price, is it OK if I quote different prices to different people who text me?
    I think so as well. I don't see a problem with this - you don't know anything (maybe besides a green/blue text) anything about the buyer, how much they make, &c.
    BeetleB · 1790187750 · focus · HN ↗
    > I think so as well. I don't see a problem with this - you don't know anything (maybe besides a green/blue text) anything about the buyer, how much they make, &c.
    Going with the Craigslist scenario, what if I do? What if I quote different prices depending on the area code of their phone number? So I quote higher prices for people with a California number?
    I'm not asking about morality or ethics. Does it make sense to make this scenario (Craigslist ad) illegal?
    ericmay · 1790188198 · focus · HN ↗
    Idk it seems like it's just different to me and we don't need to create a blanket rule that encompasses Craigslist. Why not just start with stores for example?
    jbombadil · 1790189070 · focus · HN ↗
    I take issue with this type of argument, because it ignores that scale is the _core_ part of the problem.
    Equating "an individual selling on craigslist prices based on area code" with "Albertsons buys petabytes of individual private data and prices groceries based on income" is IMO not valid. Yes the very very core -borderline philosophical- question is the same. But the _scale_ is what makes it the problem.
    It's the same argument I heard a few times "Why is flock a problem? My home driveway camera points at the street and sometimes I can read a license plate!"
    So much like other laws / ordinances / provisions / etc. if regulation against this type of behaviors get enshrined, they should include thresholds for scale (which I believe the Seattle one does)
    hahn-kev · 1790269964 · focus · HN ↗
    Yeah that was my thought too. This behavior is fine for a person, not for a company. I'm tired of companies being people.
    Arainach · 1790195689 · focus · HN ↗
    Yes.
    Substitute your logic: is it OK to change your price because the responder is from an area that is mostly black? No, it's not.
    Charge one price and charge it for everyone. Anything else leads to discrimination and other awful behaviors that we've had to pass laws to change.
    BeetleB · 1790200000 · focus · HN ↗
    > is it OK to change your price because the responder is from an area that is mostly black? No, it's not.
    That's only because that's enshrined in law. Discriminating based on wealth or geography is not. Nor is discriminating based on political party affiliation.
    > Anything else leads to discrimination and other awful behaviors that we've had to pass laws to change.
    Only in the most egregious of cases.
    Keep in mind that discounts for seniors, veterans, medical workers, etc are all discriminatory. You're giving a different price between two groups. It's really the equivalent of listing the price as $100, and then charging $110 if you're not in one of those groups.
    Arainach · 1790200886 · focus · HN ↗
    > Only in the most egregious of cases.
    Everything is egregious. Private equity is buying up everything, and the only things it doesn't control are what big data got to first. Everything is owned by soulless amoral demons who never sleep.
    Employers are mining data to find the exact minimum salary each candidate will accept.
    Airlines are working to charge every customer the maximum they can stomach.
    Landlords are using companies to fix prices while claiming they're not fixing prices.
    Grocery stores want in on it. Healthcare wants in on it. Everything is doing what you claim the "most egregious cases" are.
    Arainach · 1790214073 · focus · HN ↗
    > That's only because that's enshrined in law
    Things are not wrong because they're illegal, they are wrong because they are wrong.
    Something being legal does not make it moral.
    fwip · 1790204770 · focus · HN ↗
    > I'm not asking about morality or ethics. Does it make sense to make this scenario (Craigslist ad) illegal?
    Why shouldn't we consider morality or ethics in what we decide is illegal?

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