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Tokens too cheap to meter

354 points · 227 comments · teoruiz

  1. api · · focus · HN ↗
    This is the core of my belief that data center construction is a huge bubble.

    AI is not a bubble, IMO, though we may see a retrench and some companies with sky-high valuations will crash to more reasonable ones. But data center demand is probably a bubble, and the main driver will be reduction in the actual amount of power and data center space required to serve escalating demand.

    I think hardware and model improvements will pace or maybe outrun demand and then when demand starts to saturate will keep going and leave a lot of orphaned data centers.

    1. bryanlarsen · · focus · HN ↗
      Jevon's paradox says that if data centers can serve a lot more tokens per dollar or watt there will be increased demand for data centers.
      1. automatic6131 · · focus · HN ↗
        Jevon's paradox isn't a physical law, it doesn't magically apply to everything. Millions more copies of Atari's ET game didn't cause everyone to pickup a cheap copy, and cause extra demand for a garbage video game. Some times (actually, usually, I'd argue) things are made that will sell for less than the cost of construction because of irrationality, and they don't induce extra demand and they don't change the negative profit margins.

        You can't simply wave Jevon's paradox at things. Thousands of miles of canals were dug in the UK that couldn't be sustained and were abandoned. Thousands of miles of railways were laid that could be sustained and were abandoned. And those are potentially durable investments, unlike cheap walls, pillars and roofs laid over a levelled concrete slab full of fast depreciating IT equipment.

        1. bryanlarsen · · focus · HN ↗
          It's true that Jevon's paradox doesn't always apply, although this does seem like a classic case.

          But yes, if sold for a negative margin Jevon eventually stops because the decreasing supply will drive up prices.

          > things are made that will sell for less than the cost of construction

          Price is set at the marginal cost. Capital costs aren't in marginal costs.

          You'll need a better counter-example than UK railways which suffered from Parliament price-fixing.

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