Thread

1. gspr · 1790157090 · focus · HN ↗

   It's better that they rip the badaid off like this. The EU cannot stand by if all of the ICC is hit. It's gonna be painful for all of us in Europe for a little while, but this is far better than letting any more single individuals have their lives ruined for doing their (legal!) jobs for European institutions. This has already happened too many times, and is truly shameful – let this conflict rage for real now, so that it's a burden we all have to bear together!

   1. kaon_2 · 1790157142 · focus · HN ↗

      No. Wait for the midterms and hope it can be done without catastrophic consequences.

      1. elric · 1790157514 · focus · HN ↗

         Why would those make a difference? The US elected the same corrupt madman twice. Why would things suddenly improve after this election?

         1. ZiiS · 1790157946 · focus · HN ↗

            If both houses switch then he will be distracted fighting them for the rest of his term; if they don't we no longer need to treat the US as a functioning democracy.

            1. elric · 1790158203 · focus · HN ↗

               And then what? Things will magically go back to the way they were? I doubt it. The US has seriously damaged its international reputation. It has burned bridges. It has started literal wars. Removing the Orange Danger would be a good start, but it will by no means by the end the problem.

               1. gspr · 1790159206 · focus · HN ↗

                  Exactly. Trump isn't the problem. Trump is a symptom. I'm far more terrified that the US will sigh and go "puh, glad that's over and will never again be a problem" than I am of Trump.
   2. _ink_ · 1790157715 · focus · HN ↗

      Fully agree. EU needs to get their act together and start getting independent. It's absurd that I cannot pay cashless without using American companies. Or that people lose their bank account because someone in America does something.

      Edit: They also need to force banks to make a decision. Do you want to do business in the EU? Then you must not close accounts bank accounts because someone in US puts someone on a list. If that means you lose business in the US, so be it. Make a decision which market you want to operate in. If you want to leave EU, do it. Others will take your place.

      1. jabron · 1790158660 · focus · HN ↗

         > It's absurd that I cannot pay cashless without using American companies

         The infrastructure for it exists with instant SEPA transfers, and Wero is slowly developing into a useful system for retail payments, but without the EU mandating that banks and retailers must support it alongside Visa it will take a while for meaningful penetration to happen.

         1. _ink_ · 1790160291 · focus · HN ↗

            Yeah, it's good that it is progressing. But my hopes are really on the digital Euro. I hope the EU doesn't fall for the lobbying against it by the (Wero) banks.
   3. surgical_fire · 1790158560 · focus · HN ↗

      The problem is that the EU is not a country, it is a bloc. Each member state is a sovereign nation.

      It is up to each member state to decide how to respond to an increasingly hostile US.

      Which is why foreign actors such as US and Russia always seem to undermine the EU and foment dissent in the bloc. A unified Europe would be much harder to push around.

      1. gspr · 1790161851 · focus · HN ↗

         > The problem is that the EU is not a country, it is a bloc. Each member state is a sovereign nation.

         Yes, but

         > It is up to each member state to decide how to respond to an increasingly hostile US.

         is not true. A member state cannot, for example, decide that it's fine to import and sell US beef. It is perfectly possible to introduce EU laws that protect the population of Europe from the US using European banks as a weapon against law-abiding people.

         > Which is why foreign actors such as US and Russia always seem to undermine the EU and foment dissent in the bloc. A unified Europe would be much harder to push around.

         It's a scale. I, too, wish for a more tightly integrated Europe, but that doesn't mean there is no integration whatsoever today.

         1. wolvoleo · 1790164905 · focus · HN ↗

            > It is perfectly possible to introduce EU laws that protect the population of Europe from the US using European banks as a weapon against law-abiding people.

            Yes it is but it's going to be necessary to have an alternative first.

            Right now especially in point of sale solutions there's a practical monopoly by visa and mastercard within the EU and it's going to take years to replace that with a local solution.

         2. surgical_fire · 1790180671 · focus · HN ↗

            While the EU does impose a lot of regulations on trade (thankfully I might add), foreign policy in general is still up to each member state. It's how we had Orban for years licking Putin's asshole.

            I am very much in favor of a more integrated EU, including to a sort of federalization. Only with more integration we can stand up to other great powers.

            1. gspr · 1790319928 · focus · HN ↗

               Banking regulation is not foreign policy though.
      2. Zigurd · 1790169945 · focus · HN ↗

         That is a problem, for the EU, from a perspective of power and effectiveness. The problem for the US is, in part, due to the concentration of power in the presidency, for foreign affairs.

         If the US chooses someone sane next time, reestablishing institutional power, and diffusing power to avoid chaos in the future, will have to be part of the plan.

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