Thread

1. dcrazy · 1790136398 · focus · HN ↗

   Meanwhile, the 47 Muni bus that connects the Van Ness transit corridor to Caltrain has been “suspended” since 2020, and the extension of Caltrain to the transit center is still unfunded.

   I appreciate solutions that meet us where we are, but it’s depressing that we don’t seem to actually have the will to make a sustainable, integrated mass transit plan.

   1. tristanj · 1790137381 · focus · HN ↗

      The reason there's not more public transit is because the economics are terrible. Looking at the financials:

        Cost per passenger trip:
          BART: $1.07B operating expenses / 59.5M trips = $16.92
          SF Muni: $1.13B / 160M trips = $7.06
          Caltrain: $225M / 9.1M trips = $24.73
      
        Passenger Fare collected per trip:
          BART: $259M / 59.5M trips = $4.35
          SF Muni: $111M / 160M trips = $0.69
          Caltrain: $58.7M / 9.1M trips = $6.45
      
        Subsidy per trip:
          BART: $12.57
          SF Muni: $6.37
          Caltrain: $18.27
      
        Cost per passenger mile:
          BART: $1.07B / 892.5M passenger miles = $1.20/mile
          SF Muni: $1.13B / 312M = $3.62/mile
          Caltrain: $225M / 177.5M = $1.27/mile
      
        Subsidy per passenger mile:
          BART: $1.07B / 892.5M passenger miles = $0.84/mile
          SF Muni: $1.13B / 312M = $3.26/mile
          Caltrain: $225M / 177.5M = $0.94/mile
      

      Every single ride requires a $6 to $18 subsidy, paid for by tax dollars.

      For comparison, federal spending for the interstate highway system is about 2-3 cents per passenger mile.

      1. jcranmer · 1790139383 · focus · HN ↗

         > The reason there's not more public transit is because the economics are terrible.

         The reason we don't have roads is because the economics are terrible. The government gets $0 per trip [1], but it costs billions of dollars a year in operating expenses.

         Wait, that's not how it works.

         [1] Federal gas taxes don't count, because those go to the Highway Trust Fund which funds road construction, which is not an operating expense. State gas taxes may vary. Although toll roads also properly charge people user fees, although for some reason, lots of drivers complain about how expensive tolls are...

         1. tristanj · 1790151062 · focus · HN ↗

            But you can't ignore the financials. SF Muni's $3.62 cost per passenger mile is atrocious. At that price point, it's cheaper to charter a helicopter. I'm not kidding. You could literally charter a 20-seat Airbus H175 helicopter to fly people around for $2.50 per passenger mile. And you'd get there faster.

            If public transit is less cost-effective than taking a helicopter, then something is clearly broken.

            1. hcknwscommenter · 1790175869 · focus · HN ↗

               Dude. Public transit can carry hundreds of thousands (millions even). How many helicopters you planning on having? How many landing pads? Where are they going to go? You going to spin up a municipal ATC? This is silly.

               1. [deleted] · 1790201397 · focus · HN ↗

                  [deleted]

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