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OpenAI is well positioned to fast-follow Jev

328 points · 233 comments · JohnBerryman

  1. tolugenius · · focus · HN ↗
    I'm not exactly following through with the claim, can someone explain how the built-in classification would not necessitate more tokens used, or be much different from turning on reasoning? Not that I don't see the difference, I just doing see how OpenAI would do it well.
    1. mnicky · · focus · HN ↗
      AFAIK Jev is nothing special technically so it's easy to embed it as an another tool for the LLM? For many batch tasks it can still be quite a token saver I think.

      Or they can even offer it as a standalone API if deemed worth it.

      1. HarHarVeryFunny · · focus · HN ↗
        Jev seems to have three benefits:

        1) It's very cheap and fast - you provide one input and many potential classifications, and the compute to ingest the input is shared.

        2) It generates structured output natively - guaranteed to be correct

        3) It's output probabilities are calibrated to actually mean something

        OpenAI, or anyone else, could certainly replicate it - there are already articles guessing how Jev achieves its "parallel" classifications, but it seems the AI companies need to decide are they in the business of providing intelligence/tokens, or are they in the application business trying to compete with all their customers (not that Jev uses OpenAI).

        1. verdverm · · focus · HN ↗
          (3) seems to be the hard one, you have to have training data with accurate probabilities, maybe, but perhaps not since people are primed to trust
          1. danielmarkbruce · · focus · HN ↗
            No, you don't. You do RLCR, similar to that proposed here:

            <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;pdf&#x2F;2507.16806" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;pdf&#x2F;2507.16806

            1. verdverm · · focus · HN ↗
              yes, and... pretty much everything in the Ai field comes back to &quot;data makes more difference&quot;
              1. danielmarkbruce · · focus · HN ↗
                Sure, and most days it doesn&#x27;t rain.
                1. verdverm · · focus · HN ↗
                  depends on where you live, an important feature for data points about weather pattern probabilities

                  the underlying data set needs to be representative

                  1. danielmarkbruce · · focus · HN ↗
                    RLVR and RLCR really don&#x27;t need a whole bunch of special data.
                    1. verdverm · · focus · HN ↗
                      the algorithms technically, sure, however the outcomes definitely depend on data quality and coverage like any other training method, this is well known
                      1. danielmarkbruce · · focus · HN ↗
                        I don&#x27;t think you&#x27;ve ever done either of these training steps. You are just handwaving.
                        1. verdverm · · focus · HN ↗
                          you know what they say about making assumptions, yea?

                          and then you are going to ignore all the research and results that clearly show otherwise? why?

                          what might we infer about the importance of data from a learning algorithm like decision trees?

                          1. danielmarkbruce · · focus · HN ↗
                            Read the paper. They train RLCR on existing big math problems. They subtract a brier score penalty from the correctness reward. No new confidence labels are needed.

                            Existing datasets, different reward function.

                            1. verdverm · · focus · HN ↗
                              &gt; Read the paper.

                              I did, in the first days Jev came out, when people were bringing it up. Another assumption. Please review the HN commenting guidelines, the one which starts with &quot;Please don&#x27;t comment on whether someone read an article.&quot; is relevant here.

                              Nothing in that paper changes that ML algorithms are dependent on the training data. We can step back from Jev and algos to consider Bayes Theorem. If your sample is not representative of the population, your resulting statistics will be off. The same is true here. If the data you train a model like Jev with is not representative, the probabilities and confidences it outputs will not be representative.

                              What makes Jev interesting is that it works well out of the box across domains. What people who are well known in the field believe is that this is the result of Typesafe having a really good training data set. People are saying similar of MiMo-2.6 today.

                              1. verdverm · · focus · HN ↗
                                HN post from today that has a more detailed explanation

                                <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=49816899">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=49816899

                                <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.alexmolas.com&#x2F;2026&#x2F;09&#x2F;23&#x2F;jev-cant-be-calibrated.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.alexmolas.com&#x2F;2026&#x2F;09&#x2F;23&#x2F;jev-cant-be-calibrated....

                                1. [deleted] · · focus · HN ↗

                                  [deleted]

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