There's a continuum between "vibe coded by someone with no technical knowledge or inclination" and "hand written domain driven design development". You can absolutely use coding agents AND have maintainable code. But yes, the coding agents will not magically make everything maintainable if you don't tell them to.
"Code maintainability and good architecture don’t have good measurements that we can apply"
Who has no wisdom? There are dozens of ways to measure code maintainability. Cyclomatic complexity is just one.
Nothing stops you from wiring up something like SonarQube metrics to your agentic coding workflow.
> You can absolutely use coding agents AND have maintainable code. But yes, the coding agents will not magically make everything maintainable if you don't tell them to.
The trillion dollar question is how you do this, if your employees do not care (they are optimising for salary & time spent not code quality) and you have no way of telling apart AI slop vs. good maintainable code. (If you could you would just train the AI.)
Before AI there was at least some way to tell apart good programmers from bad, because there was some human effort involved in coding. Now with AI and slop generation there is almost now way to do this.
> if your employees do not care (they are optimising for salary & time spent not code quality)...
From what I see is it's mainly managers and higher brass who doesn't care about code quality and sustainability, and aims to drive time to market metrics down aggressively with AI.
Any employee who cares about code quality will become a poor performer with a red luddite label because they dare to change what the AI has emitted for them.
I'd love to be wrong, very wrong about this, actually.
> Any employee who cares about code quality will become a poor performer with a red luddite label because they dare to change what the AI has emitted for them.
I think that's true but it's a special case. AI is here to stay and with AI coding IS faster and quality is better than ever before. Ideally you want your luddite fired along with the slop generators and keep the ones who are using AI and taking their time to deliver a maintainable code.
That's true, but it doesn't have to stay in this form.
> with AI coding IS faster and quality is better than ever before.
Citation needed, because the last study I read about was painting a completely different picture about code quality. Also, just because the AI pulling and remixing code from a known repository with high quality doesn't mean your code will be at the same quality automatically. Passing tests is not enough.
> Ideally you want your luddite fired along with the slop generators.
The thing is it's not possible to see who generates slop and who generates code, and if you fire the only people who knows about the codebase intimately, you'll be on a very exciting, possibly fatal ride. I don't recommend this. AI doesn't know your history and trade-offs. These guys do, and can guide you to clear.
AI can't.
Believing that AI will create bug-free code from start is believing that Rust is the silver bullet.
The reason that we can (not that everyone, or even most people will) create higher quality software now is that it is now much easier to try out a bunch of edge and corner cases, which would have previously often required a prohibitive amount of time to set up and run. It's a dream! I can certainly believe that people aren't taking advantage of this, but they should be!
But I totally agree with you about the measurement problem. I think it's a very difficult time to be a hiring and firing manager.
davedx · · focus · HN ↗
"Code maintainability and good architecture don’t have good measurements that we can apply"
Who has no wisdom? There are dozens of ways to measure code maintainability. Cyclomatic complexity is just one.
Nothing stops you from wiring up something like SonarQube metrics to your agentic coding workflow.
abroszka33 · · focus · HN ↗
The trillion dollar question is how you do this, if your employees do not care (they are optimising for salary & time spent not code quality) and you have no way of telling apart AI slop vs. good maintainable code. (If you could you would just train the AI.)
Before AI there was at least some way to tell apart good programmers from bad, because there was some human effort involved in coding. Now with AI and slop generation there is almost now way to do this.
bayindirh · · focus · HN ↗
From what I see is it's mainly managers and higher brass who doesn't care about code quality and sustainability, and aims to drive time to market metrics down aggressively with AI.
Any employee who cares about code quality will become a poor performer with a red luddite label because they dare to change what the AI has emitted for them.
I'd love to be wrong, very wrong about this, actually.
abroszka33 · · focus · HN ↗
I think that's true but it's a special case. AI is here to stay and with AI coding IS faster and quality is better than ever before. Ideally you want your luddite fired along with the slop generators and keep the ones who are using AI and taking their time to deliver a maintainable code.
bayindirh · · focus · HN ↗
That's true, but it doesn't have to stay in this form.
> with AI coding IS faster and quality is better than ever before.
Citation needed, because the last study I read about was painting a completely different picture about code quality. Also, just because the AI pulling and remixing code from a known repository with high quality doesn't mean your code will be at the same quality automatically. Passing tests is not enough.
> Ideally you want your luddite fired along with the slop generators.
The thing is it's not possible to see who generates slop and who generates code, and if you fire the only people who knows about the codebase intimately, you'll be on a very exciting, possibly fatal ride. I don't recommend this. AI doesn't know your history and trade-offs. These guys do, and can guide you to clear.
AI can't.
Believing that AI will create bug-free code from start is believing that Rust is the silver bullet.
There are no silver bullets.
sanderjd · · focus · HN ↗
But I totally agree with you about the measurement problem. I think it's a very difficult time to be a hiring and firing manager.