Thread

1. nbf_1995 · 1790086541 · focus · HN ↗

   It seems like it would be more effective to simply put all the solar panels in a field, and construct a cheap shade over the entire canal no? The supports in the picture are massive and don't look cheap. Also I would imagine the solar array uses more copper than a similar capacity array just built in a field. You can't daisy chain multiple miles of solar panels together, so you need an extra power line to run alongside the whole thing.

   Put the solar panels in a field: The solar array uses less copper. The shade supports don't have to hold up solar panels: Shade supports cost less.

   The best reasoning they give is that California has insane permitting requirements, and it takes 1/6 the time to build on developed land compared to undeveloped land.

   1. schnevets · 1790111056 · focus · HN ↗

      Anecdotally speaking, I have heard of a massive California solar farm in an undeveloped area that has serious vandalism problems. Junkies will find ways through the fencing at night, strip copper and other materials from panels, and cause thousands in damages and lost energy just to extract enough scrap for a fix.

      Nothing short of a face-to-face security response will deter these criminals, so there it is a challenging cost-benefit balance. At least panels in parking lots and other developed spaces have the benefit of witnesses. I'm sure a 20 foot climb up a steel beam over running water is a decent deterrent as well.

      1. happyopossum · 1790116042 · focus · HN ↗

         > Anecdotally speaking

         First hand experience here - worked with a non-profit that has a tiny solar and battery installation for a light display, and we have had constant theft and vandalism problems with it. It's not even easy to get to - those meth-heads had to work to steal the lead acid batteries and copper wire...

         1. dylan604 · 1790118706 · focus · HN ↗

            Several years ago one of the local youth sports complex was limited to daylight use because the copper would get stolen from the light poles. This was a large complex with many light poles. Within a week of them being fixed, they'd come and steal the new copper. I never did follow up to see what they ultimately did to discourage the thieves.

            1. Enginerrrd · 1790126035 · focus · HN ↗

               Man, we don’t have tools to deal with these clowns. I had the gas tank in my truck drilled. I doubt they got even 5 gallons worth of gas, worth about $25 at the time. The fix cost me $2500. I found out from the shop that there had been a string of these going around town. After some digging, I came up with an order of magnitude estimate of somewhere around 50 such instances. So, what was undoubtedly just a couple of people at the most had done probably over $100k in damages to get maybe $1200 worth of spoils. Even if caught, unless they confessed to more, they’d probably only ever risk getting linked to a single one of these crimes and face a tiny fraction of the consequences they deserved. Such a drain on society.

               1. vkou · 1790132719 · focus · HN ↗

                  > Man, we don’t have tools to deal with these clowns.

                  We do. Arrest and imprison the fences and scrappers that pay cash to buy copper off the tweakers.

                  The problem will solve itself in a few weeks. Hang the fences, and the thieves will starve. It's both way easier to go after them, and they have something to lose if they don't follow the law.

                  1. AnthonyMouse · 1790135189 · focus · HN ↗

                     > Arrest and imprison the fences and scrappers that pay cash to buy copper off the tweakers.

                     How do you expect the scrappers to know if something was stolen and not just some old wires you've been stuffing in a bin until you accumulate enough to justify a trip to the scrap yard?

                     How do you even expect to catch the scrappers who knowingly pay for stolen copper if you don't have a way to know that what they throw into the smelter was stolen?

                     Meanwhile if the idiots keep stealing copper from the same place over and over, is it really that hard to maybe put up some cameras or set up a sting?

                     1. dylan604 · 1790136510 · focus · HN ↗

                        If it's a scrapper willing to buy sketchy sourced copper, they'll be the type that pays the least for it.

                        1. AnthonyMouse · 1790139191 · focus · HN ↗

                           Is that actually helpful or does it just cause the addicts to commit twice as many thefts?

                           1. cjbgkagh · 1790144729 · focus · HN ↗

                              Perhaps we should pay them more instead?

                              1. AnthonyMouse · 1790155510 · focus · HN ↗

                                 Probably more effective to lower the cost of the drugs.

                                 1. cjbgkagh · 1790172910 · focus · HN ↗

                                    You may have missed my sarcasm.

                                    There is a strong link between lower prices leading to increased usage and overdosing. Areas with cheaper fentanyl experience more crime not less, any decrease in individual criminality is more than offset by an increase in the percentage of users. You know we live in a world where this data is already available.

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