Thread

1. nbf_1995 · 1790086541 · focus · HN ↗

   It seems like it would be more effective to simply put all the solar panels in a field, and construct a cheap shade over the entire canal no? The supports in the picture are massive and don't look cheap. Also I would imagine the solar array uses more copper than a similar capacity array just built in a field. You can't daisy chain multiple miles of solar panels together, so you need an extra power line to run alongside the whole thing.

   Put the solar panels in a field: The solar array uses less copper. The shade supports don't have to hold up solar panels: Shade supports cost less.

   The best reasoning they give is that California has insane permitting requirements, and it takes 1/6 the time to build on developed land compared to undeveloped land.

   1. schnevets · 1790111056 · focus · HN ↗

      Anecdotally speaking, I have heard of a massive California solar farm in an undeveloped area that has serious vandalism problems. Junkies will find ways through the fencing at night, strip copper and other materials from panels, and cause thousands in damages and lost energy just to extract enough scrap for a fix.

      Nothing short of a face-to-face security response will deter these criminals, so there it is a challenging cost-benefit balance. At least panels in parking lots and other developed spaces have the benefit of witnesses. I'm sure a 20 foot climb up a steel beam over running water is a decent deterrent as well.

      1. __MatrixMan__ · 1790127456 · focus · HN ↗

         We can't have nice things until we migrate away from desperation-based economics.

         1. a96 · 1790151088 · focus · HN ↗

            That does still leave many things like malice (or ignorance that's as good as), organized crime (including political), and possibly neighbours that still have desperation. Lots of things are in the way of having nice things. But nice things are also a spectrum.

            1. __MatrixMan__ · 1790167441 · focus · HN ↗

               Yeah, there are other root causes. I'm just saying that we should focus on those. Much of this conversation is focused on enforcement. Getting enforcement right is like having the right sized bucket for bailing out your sinking boat: some answers are better than others, but none change the fact that the boat wasn't seaworthy to begin with.

               Although to nitpick your examples... Can you really imagine a malice fueled crime that has to do with stealing copper from infrastructure? If you're angry but not desperate for money, there are more satisfying ways to express it.

               And organized crime... That's for stealing Venezuelan oil tankers. If you're involved with organized crime and you're stealing copper from infrastructure, maybe you need to find a more ambitious boss because any junkie can do that. You don't even need to be organized about it.

               I think the panels are safe if there's enough of a safety net that nobody's desperate

               1. a96 · 1790254549 · focus · HN ↗

                  Oh, I meant those as "We can't have nice things" reasons. There's a lot of non-copper related vandalism that has prevented or taken away nice things for the public, at least here. And that doesn't seem to be easy to solve.

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