Thread

What California is learning from solar panels built over irrigation canals

372 points · 744 comments · Jtsummers

nbf_1995 · 1790086541 · focus · HN ↗
It seems like it would be more effective to simply put all the solar panels in a field, and construct a cheap shade over the entire canal no? The supports in the picture are massive and don't look cheap. Also I would imagine the solar array uses more copper than a similar capacity array just built in a field. You can't daisy chain multiple miles of solar panels together, so you need an extra power line to run alongside the whole thing.
Put the solar panels in a field: The solar array uses less copper. The shade supports don't have to hold up solar panels: Shade supports cost less.
The best reasoning they give is that California has insane permitting requirements, and it takes 1/6 the time to build on developed land compared to undeveloped land.
1. schnevets · 1790111056 · focus · HN ↗
  Anecdotally speaking, I have heard of a massive California solar farm in an undeveloped area that has serious vandalism problems. Junkies will find ways through the fencing at night, strip copper and other materials from panels, and cause thousands in damages and lost energy just to extract enough scrap for a fix.
  Nothing short of a face-to-face security response will deter these criminals, so there it is a challenging cost-benefit balance. At least panels in parking lots and other developed spaces have the benefit of witnesses. I'm sure a 20 foot climb up a steel beam over running water is a decent deterrent as well.
  1. rottencupcakes · 1790113398 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
    onlypassingthru · 1790115247 · focus · HN ↗
    A company nightwatchman making $20/hr would cost about $80k/yr, all in.
    One prisoner costs the California taxpayer $125k/yr, all in.
    Maybe the company should foot the bill for a security guard instead of asking the taxpayers to subsidize their business.
    zdragnar · 1790115779 · focus · HN ↗
    This implies that vandals only attack one business, instead of being a public nuisance or menace to everyone.
    onlypassingthru · 1790116422 · focus · HN ↗
    >solar farm in an undeveloped area
    Looks like the vandals will have to move along to somewhere else to score some copper.
    zdragnar · 1790119011 · focus · HN ↗
    Ah yes, breaking news: vandals have cars and commit more than one kind of crime.
    happyopossum · 1790116136 · focus · HN ↗
    Your takeaway is that every solar installation, regardless of size, now has an $80k/year minimum cost associated with its' mere existence because California can't get its' house in order?
    cjsplat · 1790116682 · focus · HN ↗
    Citation needed that this problem is unique to California.
    <a href="https://wallethub.com/edu/drug-use-by-state/35150" rel="nofollow">https://wallethub.com/edu/drug-use-by-state/35150
    sebmellen · 1790124470 · focus · HN ↗
    The theft problem seems to be. Texas has marginally higher drug use than California but I’ve never heard of this problem here.
    pm90 · 1790125369 · focus · HN ↗
    Texas also has open carry.
    aplummer · 1790130125 · focus · HN ↗
    Ah that’s why Australia and Japan have no copper left, no open carry.
    senordevnyc · 1790130322 · focus · HN ↗
    Google “Texas copper theft” and you’ll no longer be able to claim that. Lots of examples.
    gamblor956 · 1790135156 · focus · HN ↗
    <a href="https://www.kvue.com/article/news/crime/copper-theft-disrupts-mueller-regional-retail-center-power-austin/269-b81c1d7c-db79-4c49-8faf-5d4a1cc6ee32" rel="nofollow">https://www.kvue.com/article/news/crime/copper-theft-disrupt...
    It's a big problem in Texas too. Quick google search returned several hundred articles.
    samudrijan · 1790141068 · focus · HN ↗
    <a href="https://www.kwtx.com/2026/09/18/waco-man-seeks-probation-theft-more-than-280000-worth-copper-former-employer" rel="nofollow">https://www.kwtx.com/2026/09/18/waco-man-seeks-probation-the...
    <a href="https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2026/09/16/affidavit-man-poses-as-repairman-to-steal-dollar40k-in-metal-wires-from-northeast-side-heb-warehouse/" rel="nofollow">https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2026/09/16/affidavit-man-pos...
    Retric · 1790116323 · focus · HN ↗
    24/7 coverage 365 days a year at 20$/h = 175,200$/year.
    onlypassingthru · 1790116606 · focus · HN ↗
    >Junkies will find ways through the fencing at night
    Your math implies polar winter. Solar would be a bad investment.
    Retric · 1790116797 · focus · HN ↗
    You can’t assume behavior is unchanged when you change the situation.
    In remote areas if you only guard at night they will go in the day.
    onlypassingthru · 1790120059 · focus · HN ↗
    You've changed the situation. It's a night problem that needs a night solution.
    lazide · 1790131649 · focus · HN ↗
    They’ll get electrocuted during the day.
    Retric · 1790147996 · focus · HN ↗
    You’re underestimating what motivated thieves can accomplish.
    lurk2 · 1790128633 · focus · HN ↗
    [delayed]
    dylan604 · 1790118790 · focus · HN ↗
    > Maybe the company should foot the bill for a security guard instead of asking the taxpayers to subsidize their business.
    Why would a company spend their own money when they can have someone else spend their money instead?
    r3trohack3r · 1790124026 · focus · HN ↗
    I do not consider being a reasonably well adjusted member of society, and enforcing that, to be the responsibility of businesses and do not agree that we are all subsidizing a business’ ability to have nice things without people destroying them.
    DANmode · 1790144516 · focus · HN ↗
    > I do not consider being a reasonably well adjusted member of society, and enforcing that, to be the responsibility of businesses
    The correct read of “Corporations are people, my friend.” is that people are indeed responsible for individual corporate humanism - being moral in how they operate even inside a company - or expect social repercussions at minimum in return.
    sebmellen · 1790124596 · focus · HN ↗
    Brilliant idea! We should just privatize everything! By doing so, we’ll make companies foot the bill for every public service they rely on!
    Come to think of it, who needs communally regulated safety services like jails, prisons, and law enforcement? In addition to having a private guard, every company should have their own in-house holding pen and justice system :)
    randochatter · 1790131551 · focus · HN ↗
    I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.
    “Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”
    “What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”
    “Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”
    The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”
    “Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”
    “Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”
    He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”
    “Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”
    I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.
    “Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.
    “Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.
    “Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”
    It didn’t seem like they did.
    “Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”
    Grandmaster Flash on “Birth of a Culture” | The New Yorker Radio Hour
    Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.
    I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.
    “Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.
    Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.
    “Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.
    I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”
    He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.
    “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
    “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
    “Because I was afraid.”
    “Afraid?”
    “Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”
    I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.
    “Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”
    He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
    -Tom O’Donnell
    rawgabbit · 1790132516 · focus · HN ↗
    [delayed]
    sebmellen · 1790135714 · focus · HN ↗
    Amazing. I remember this from the /r/Buttcoin days.
    hobo123 · 1790141219 · focus · HN ↗
    Great breakfast read, thank you!
    ajmurmann · 1790133065 · focus · HN ↗
    I know you are being facetious but the community Jurerê Internacional in Florianópolis has done exactly that to great success: <a href="https://youtu.be/dA_UYNGvDxc" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/dA_UYNGvDxc
    megaman821 · 1790132478 · focus · HN ↗
    That company and all those who work there are taxpayers. The justice system should stop the theif and jail them.
    I don't know what kind of hellscape you want to live in where you need private security to keep anything you own from being stolen, especially something as mundane as some wires.
    conductr · 1790140702 · focus · HN ↗
    Not sure if you realize it but you’re actually arguing that the government should employ potential criminals as it’s cheaper, for them. The problem with that is people will find ways to appear like a potential criminal and then we have a huge welfare state that cost much more than the prison system. Also, people with jobs sometimes still do crime, so it’s not a fully baked solution.
    The company wouldn’t employ the guard unless it saved them money, reducing losses by more than $80k. For Many businesses that’s not going to make sense. Even larger businesses, have larger risk footprint, needing more security guards, needing more loss savings to justify.
    hobo123 · 1790140842 · focus · HN ↗
    Soon we'll have rc (because AI-controlled will probably not permitted for legal reasons) roboguards.
    trollbridge · 1790165402 · focus · HN ↗
    An acquaintance of mine in California put in a residential solar system.
    Someone came (during the day) and stole it using a sawzall.
    Do you expect homeowners to hire security guards?
    nitwit005 · 1790119515 · focus · HN ↗
    They have been trying to crack down on the people buying the scrap: <a href="https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab476" rel="nofollow">https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab...
    gs17 · 1790128969 · focus · HN ↗
    Meanwhile in Washington:
    > As the 5 p.m. cutoff to pass bills approached Tuesday, Sen. Shelly Short, R-Addy, launched an unusual bid to bog down the Senate process. She demanded Lt. Gov. Denny Heck, a Democrat, to have the chamber’s secretary read all 39 pages of a bill focused on electrical transmission infrastructure. Usually, the clerk reads the first and last line of legislation into the record. Heck agreed.
    > This maneuver killed the transmission bill, as well as several others Senate Democrats were hoping to vote on before the deadline. One of those looked to address surging theft of copper wiring. Senate Bill 6190 would’ve imposed new recordkeeping requirements on scrap metal businesses and made destroying “critical communications infrastructure” a felony.
    Better luck next year, I guess.
    Terr_ · 1790136757 · focus · HN ↗
    [delayed]
    vkou · 1790133975 · focus · HN ↗
    If California were a country, its incarceration rate would be in the top 10 in the world.
    It's only 10% below the rest of the US.

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