Thread

1. prohobo · 1790155734 · focus · HN ↗

   People don't understand that cigarettes are self-limiting because they literally hurt your throat and lungs. Most people simply can't chain smoke and they need about an hour break in between smokes.

   With vaping that limit is completely gone. A vaping addiction can keep escalating until you want a puff every 30 seconds, especially once you start breaking down mental barriers like "no vaping indoors" or "no vaping while on the computer", etc.

   So in terms of pure addiction I would 100% argue that cigarettes are better than vaping.

   1. m-chrzan · 1790158363 · focus · HN ↗

      Are you speaking at all from experience?

      >Most people [...] need about an hour break in between smokes.

      I've never seen anything like that. When there's a group of social smokers standing around, it's very common for something like "Oh, I just finished mine and you're only half-way through yours, I'll light up another one to keep you company" to happen. I've seen plenty of people who aren't chain smokers (yet), but can easily go through 2-4 cigarettes in a row if they're suddenly in a stressful situation and smoking "to relax".

      >So in terms of pure addiction I would 100% argue that cigarettes are better than vaping.

      But that's not a metric that's in any way helpful for a health decision. Nicotine in and of itself is not particularly physically harmful - it's toxic at high doses and elevates heart rate for a bit, but that's about it. The delivery method is what causes most of the harm, and smoking is 100% known to cause a lot of harm in a lot of different ways. And "With vaping that limit is completely gone" is also not accurate. Unlike the Navier-Stokes equations, dopamine receptors don't experience infinite blowup in finite time. So choosing a delivery method based on the amount of nicotine taken daily is not going to change much in terms of addiction (if you're already heavily addicted, you'll remain heavily addicted), but can have a huge impact on physical health.

      1. andoando · 1790159050 · focus · HN ↗

         Speaking from personal experience, vaping is far more addicting. For one the amount of nicotine, especially in the US where 5% is the standard, is easily 5-10x the amount from a pack of cigarettes a day.

         Second, its much easier to take a puff than it is to find a suitable place to light up a cigarette and smoke for 5-10 minutes. You can very easily end up becoming psychologically conditioned to taking a puff litteraly once every 20 seconds, all day long from waking up to going to bed.

         I too have considered picking up smoking to quit vaping. I remember of the times I did, I could smoke 3-4 a day and be fine. I don't know the long term effects of vaping physically, but just mentally the amount of nicotine is absolutely draining and at this point I rather do some damage to my lungs than keep this going.

         1. m-chrzan · 1790159905 · focus · HN ↗

            >Speaking from personal experience, vaping is far more addicting.

            Sure, and I&#x27;m not disagreeing with that. I disagree that &quot;degree of addictiveness&quot; is the metric that&#x27;s wise to use when choosing a nicotine delivery method. Obviously the #1 choice should be NULL, not smoking at all, but if one is already addicted to nicotine and not ready to quit it at the moment, smoking cigarettes is, as far as we know, the worst option. Even intermittent smoking, or low-volume (like your 3-4 a day) causes non-linear harm. See this paper for example: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ahajournals.org&#x2F;doi&#x2F;10.1161&#x2F;CIRCULATIONAHA.109.904235?doi=10.1161&#x2F;CIRCULATIONAHA.109.904235" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ahajournals.org&#x2F;doi&#x2F;10.1161&#x2F;CIRCULATIONAHA.109.9... .

            1. andoando · 1790161728 · focus · HN ↗

               Also I want to mention, I feel like there is too much emphasis put on length of life and not enough on quality of life.

               If smoking 3-4 a day is far worse on my body BUT it means Im not a nicotine fiend with a brain fog all day every day with zero motivation, Ill take it.

               1. shevy-java · 1790165811 · focus · HN ↗

                  But smoking cigarettes shortens life. Why would you want to promote vaping as improvement on the quality of life? Also, why do you write nicotine fiend - you are aware that tobacco plants contain nicotine? Vaping may be less damaging than smoking. I fail to see how it is healthy anywhere at all. Why do people here on this sub promote either thing as an exclusive or? That makes no sense. People need to stop sugar-coating crap. I also noticed this with weed. Weed users always say how weed is no problem, but it ALSO is a problem. Their brain tricks them into becoming a promo-individual for weed suddenly. Weed changes the brain pattern too.

                  1. andoando · 1790166977 · focus · HN ↗

                     I think you misread. I am saying vaping 5x the amount of nicotine is far worse mentally. Even if smoking 3-4 a day is worse physically, if I am going to do one or the other, I rather smoke 3-4 a day.

                     But in general I am saying, even for the quitting smoking&#x2F;vaping ad campaigns there is not enough emphasis put on how dramatically it reduces your quality of life. Its always about dying of cancer or heart disease and living shorter amount of time 20-40 years down the line. I mean shit in a lot of cases I rather die at 70 than live to 80. Youll feel better EVERY day in a month is a muucch stronger motivation for me.

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